Space Seed and Khan -- great set-up for the future!

[Morpheus 02]

Just saw Space Seed on Me-TV, and was struck by a few things.

The negative was the relative ease that Khan's crew took over the Enterprise (way too early...a few days, and more Botany Bay crew reading tech manuals would've made sense).

But Ricardo Montalban was an EXCELLENT villain...very strong & charismatic. And the ending...speculating what would happen in 100 years.

Those made some excellent seeds for TWOK, and the wisdom in using that story & villain made TWOK one, if not the most loved Trek movie,

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

They didn't have very long to take over the ship before it reached Starbase 12.

And that one guy evidently decided he didn't need technical manuals... he could just belt Uhura for information.

Anyway, it's a bit shocking that Starfleet had such an "open book" policy with sensitive information about their ships. Probably the brainchild of some mealy-mouthed gentleman like Robert Fox, imposed over the objections of experienced military types who could have seen the Khan thing coming a parsec away.

 

[erastus25]

They didn't have very long to take over the ship before it reached Starbase 12.

And that one guy evidently decided he didn't need technical manuals... he could just belt Uhura for information.

Anyway, it's a bit shocking that Starfleet had such an "open book" policy with sensitive information about their ships. Probably the brainchild of some mealy-mouthed gentleman like Robert Fox, imposed over the objections of experienced military types who could have seen the Khan thing coming a parsec away.

Excellent in-universe justification!

 

[Timo]

Might also be that Khan hacked the reader that was originally locked for romantic novels only...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[f14peter]

also as likely that a lot what Khan gleaned from the manuals was crucial to his plot, but not necessarily entirely top-secret stuff.

He needed to know the layout of the ship, some basic information about its propulsion system, transporters, life support, etc ... hardly all "eyes only". He also had an on-again, off-again accomplice in McGivers

 

[Greg Cox]

also as likely that a lot what Khan gleaned from the manuals was crucial to his plot, but not necessarily entirely top-secret stuff.

He needed to know the layout of the ship, some basic information about its propulsion system, transporters, life support, etc ... hardly all "eyes only". He also had an on-again, off-again accomplice in McGivers

And note that even after he took over the ship, he really needed to acquire the crew's cooperation to run it effectively. Hence, the whole business with him torturing Kirk, etc.

If he could figure out the ship on his own, he wouldn't have needed to work so hard to get Spock and Uhura and the rest to "join" him.

(Although apparently this wasn't an issue by the time Reliant came along.)

 

[Marsden]

Khan had a cooperative Captain Terrel to help run Reliant.

I think if Khan just killed all of Enterprise's crew and tried to run it himself he may have pulled it off, but he might not and that's why he didn't want trial and error.

 

[Melakon]

Since it seems most of the control panels don't identify what the individual controls actually do, it might have taken him a while to figure everything out.

 

[Marsden]

Like the over-ride for the shield controls.

JOACHIM: Sir! Our shields are dropping!
KHAN: Raise them.
JOACHIM: I can't!
KHAN: Where's the over-ride? The over-ride?

Or is that not what you meant?

 

[Melakon]

Yeah, but I was thinking of the TOS bridge rather than TWOK. Hardly anything's labeled.

 

[Timo]

We might well speculate that everything in TOS is labeled - on the buttons themselves, with labels that change as needed (say, when a different user sits down, or a different overall mode is called up), along with the color of the button. Plus, all the black surfaces are actually displays, capable of sprouting one or more of those rounded-rectangle "screens" whenever and wherever needed. For all we know, the surfaces can also sprout buttons.

Apart from that, though, I trust there is no button or other control for override, labeled or not. It's a procedure, not a button, and Khan absolutely must study some manuals (or interactive controls) to identify the procedure, a process that necessarily takes him a lot of time.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Among the things Kirk should never have done, Kirk should never have sent Marla McGivers into exile with Khan. Khan was a ruthless dictator. He would act nice until Kirk dropped them off. Then, once Khan got her down on the planet, he would execute her for betraying him. She's the main reason his capture of the Enterprise was reversed and he was being sent into exile at all.

That's not how it was written, but realistically, Khan would be furious with her, and quite accustomed to killing people for less.

 

[Timo]

Why should Kirk care? McGivers was destined to be ruined anyway, for conspiring with the superman.

Yet Khan seemed quite taken by the fact that McGivers had managed to betray her CO, then Khan himself, and still was being offered the first prize. What better form of flattery for the vain tyrant? If there was going to be petty revenge, Khan would definitely have done it while Kirk watched, with his bare hands, and dared Kirk to put a word in edgewise!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

That's not how it was written, but realistically, Khan would be furious with her, and quite accustomed to killing people for less.

I got the feeling from the episode, especially from the scene of Mr. Spock's exasperation, that Khan was not a petty killer. He would kill but only for a reason that served his position. Also, his attitude in the court room showed only concern for her and a desire to keep her. It could have been a lie, but I don't think it was and Jim didn't think it was. The problem was she didn't want to do anything wrong but was so enamored of Khan she went along until it got to the point of being complicit with the death of Kirk, then she couldn't. Maybe Khan was just interested in having a woman that wasn't one of his direct underlings, also. I just think after the honeymoon if things weren't to rosey she'd be in a lot of trouble asking for a divorce.

 

[Khan 2.0]

this thread got me thinking - what if there had been a season 4 and in that they did the sequel to Space Seed with the return of Khan..(by season 4 theyd probably have been looking at the previous eps looking for set ups)

teaser
another Federation starship (USS Hood) obits Ceti Alpha V after being sent there to check on Khan and his people having been there 3 years. Beam down to give supplies and Khan somehow gets on board

credits

Act 1/2/3/4
Enterprise is sent to investigate the disappearance of the Hood. Approaches Ceti Alpha system. sees Hood approaching, Hood opens fire. disables Ent. Khan on viewer. Kirk does the prexix code thing. gets away. Then follows a hide and seek Balance of Terror battle in a nearby nebula. Enterprise outsmarts Khan. Khan on viewer like Romulan Cmdr in BOT. congratulates Kirk on outsmarting him. gives location of Hoods crew (dumped on nearby moon) ship goes boom

maybe it could be stretched out to a two parter with something like the genesis device the Hood is carrying and Khan causing havoc with the Klingons/Romulans etc

 

[Bud Brewster]

 

[Khan 2.0]

I imagine most probably saw TWOK before Space Seed. the first time I saw Space Seed must've been maybe 10 years after having seen TWOK as a kid in 82 (and several times again before seeing SS). and aside the youthful cast it felt to me very much like if someone had made it AFTER TWOK as a prequel it was so perfect a set up like "TWOK Begins" (if that makes sense) the foreshadowing of what's to come is immense especially the final scene when they start talking Ceti Alpha etc. Its like those words, phrases belong in the movies and to hear them talking about it in TOS is quite strange (to someone who was more familier with TWOK) I know its easy to get that feeling since they made the movie sequel but even so its such a powerful set up, the only other one I can think that had a similar set up (aside 2 parters) was TNGs Conspiracy (and I'm very surprised they never did a sequel episode to that in later TNG seasons or DS9/VOY even a ENT prequel, or even a TNG movie instead of NEMESIS)

I'm sure they'd have revisited Khan if they'd done season 4/5 of TOS or Phase II