Source for the STV "Cat Woman" being called a "Kzinrret/Kzinrretti"?

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I have heard this bit of supposed trivia repeated innumerable times here, there, and everywhere on the internet. The story goes that a person or persons involved in the production called her a "Kzinrret" or "Kzinrretti" (the female forms of "Kzin" and "Kzinti" in Larry Niven's works) behind the scenes. Yet I have never seen this attributed to a specific source. Who called her that, and where did this information come from originally? In the script and on the slate for the makeup tests, she is called a "Catwoman" or "Cat Woman."

 

[Terok Nor]

I thought she was a Caitian like Lt. M'Ress.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Which one did you think had the birth defect causing an atypical number of breasts? Was M'Ress short-changed with two, or was the stripper uncommonly well-endowed with an extra?

 

[Terok Nor]

The stripper was inspired to get an extra boob when she saw Total Recall.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

The real reason Gene Roddenberry declared STV apocryphal:
"Bill, that's not what I intended when I said the new Star Trek should have a three-breasted woman wearing a catsuit in it!"

 

[Tosk]

Which one did you think had the birth defect causing an atypical number of breasts? Was M'Ress short-changed with two, or was the stripper uncommonly well-endowed with an extra?

Considering how slender and...not pronounced she is, how do we know she doesn't have three?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Good point(s).

 

[-SS-]

Considering how slender and...not pronounced she is, how do we know she doesn't have three?

I would think more likely she would have 8 like Earth felines.

Never heard anything about the dancer being called a Kzinrret, but I would find it a big stretch compared to the TAS Kzinti.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

On a semi-related note, did she die when Kirk threw her into the water, or was she merely knocked unconscious?

 

[Tosk]

I would think more likely she would have 8 like Earth felines.

Why?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

On a semi-related note, did she die when Kirk threw her into the water, or was she merely knocked unconscious?

The script says she is "unconscious." It does however go without saying that an unconscious person lying face-down in the water can very quickly become a dead person lying face-down in the water.

 

[-SS-]

Why?

I dunno I probably overthought that.

 

[FormerLurker]

Never heard anything about the dancer being called a Kzinrret, but I would find it a big stretch compared to the TAS Kzinti.

And when you realize that the design of the Kzinti draws directly from Niven's descriptions of them (except maybe the pink), that stretch reaches the breaking point.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

The pink was a result of director Hal Sutherland being colorblind and only able to see it as gray.

Anyway, my question is not really whether anybody thinks she is a Kzin/Kzinrret in-universe or not. Rather, I'm seeking a primary source (or secondary source that cites a primary source rather than just repeating the rumor) for the suggestion that production personnel referred, even if jokingly or informally, to the Dancing Catwoman in such a way.

Is this @Therin of Andor's site? No source is cited for this information there, but I wonder if he can remember anything about where he picked it up from that might be helpful. I know that's one of many places on the internet where I read this years ago.

 

[Therin of Andor]

On a semi-related note, did she die when Kirk threw her into the water, or was she merely knocked unconscious?

Shatner's joke - mentioned in an interview with some production people - was that she drowned in a "pool" table full of water. (There are pool balls in it.)

Is this @Therin of Andor's site? No source is cited for this information there, but I wonder if he can remember anything about where he picked it up from that might be helpful.

My Toon Trek site says "The triple-breasted female felinoid dancer (in "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier") was referred to in backstage information as a 'Kzinretti'." I recall this was an interview with the actress, Linda Fetters, but I think it was a lighthearted nickname from the makeup people. Discussed in the same article was how the makeup had to be waterproof, and how Linda wandered around her house in the makeup to see how well it stayed on. (IIRC.) Interview was either in "Starlog", or Paramount's "Handbook of Production Information" for ST V. The fact that I used "backstage information" means (to me, at the time) that it wasn't stray fan rumour.

Personally, I don't think it's a useful term, as she's nothing like a kzin female.


Linda Fetters in ST V by Ian McLean, on Flickr

More recently, ENT had references to the triple-breasted Draylaxians and, as they were never seen onscreen, some have suggested the ST V cat-dancer might be a Draylaxian.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Shatner's joke was that she drowned in a "pool" table full of water. (There are pool balls in it.)

Wow. In retrospect, considering the fate that later befell his third wife, that was a particularly unfortunate joke to have made.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

My Toon Trek site says "The triple-breasted female felinoid dancer (in "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier") was referred to in backstage information as a 'Kzinretti'." I recall this was an interview with the actress, Linda Fetters, but I think it was a lighthearted nickname from the makeup people. Interview was either in "Starlog", or Paramount's "Handbook of Production Information" for ST V.

Thank you very much! Would you happen to be at all able to check further into the matter for which source it in fact was, and perhaps provide a quote? I know it might be a lot to ask, but I'm seeking to improve Memory Alpha's Kzinti article with a much-needed citation. Thanks again!

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know it might be a lot to ask, but I'm seeking to improve Memory Alpha's Kzinti article with a much-needed citation. Thanks again!

Well, I came to regret sharing the research I uncovered re the Rhaandarites of TMP, who have now been renamed in Memory Alpha. Someone decided to take them back to "Vegans", based on me noticing that a TMP script direction mentioned "high-domed Vegans" in the San Fran port, and then locating a caption under a pic of a fan extra wearing a spare Billy Van Zandt forehead. Last time I looked, there had been a lot of effort to convert every "Rhaandarite" reference on MA to "Vegan".

Despite lots of references to Rhaandarites (in the official theatre program, Citadel UK miniatures, the LA Times Syndicate comic strips, Marvel's first TMP tie-in comics and several more recent novels), they now have to be known on Memory Alpha by a very early name that even Robert Fletcher had changed to "Rhaandarite" on his costume sketches.

Sorry, I didn't footnote the "Kzinretti" source. But I don't think they were being serious at the time.

Similarly, Dennis Fischer's article mentioning Paula Crist's wolvish Worene of TMP in "Enterprise Incidents" is in my blog:
Paula Crist told Dennis Fischer on the day of filming that she called Worene's makeup a "Czintii". He assumes she did not intend any connection to Larry Niven's felinoid "kzinti" (of "Star Trek: The Animated Series" and Niven's "Known Space" science fiction universe). Fischer thought that Worene more resembled a female Tellarite (TOS).

 

[Pauln6]

I've plopped Linda Fetters head onto Uhura's body for my Youtube cartoon so I have a movie version of M'Ress to function as a spare comms officer when Uhura is off doing something more interesting.

I treat Worene as a Tellarite, since female Tellarites have not exactly been jumping off the screen at us. I guess Tellarites keep them at home and don't let them wear clothes.

I think Rhaandarite and Vegan should be as interchangeable as Human and Earthling. Rhaandarite is a better and more specific name referring to the humanoids from Vega but so is Human (a possum from Earth is still an Earthling after all).

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

@Therin of Andor

To be clear, all I am looking to do is provide a reliable citation for the note in the background information about the dancer from TFF being lightheartedly called that, not to suggest she is Kzinti in-universe. If the note continues to go uncited, it may be removed by someone who thinks it is just a fan myth without basis in any production source. I'll admit that I wasn't even sure whether it was true myself, but fortunately I have never been of a mind to dismiss things like this out of hand just because I can't immediately find a source through an internet search, as it's possible some other contributor(s) might be. Your comment on the matter has been very helpful in letting me know I am not on a snark hunt here.

If you no longer have access to these sources to pin it down, would you happen to remember anything else that might narrow down which Starlog it might have been? For instance, was it the "Official Movie Magazine" edition for the film? If not, do you remember if you came across it before, around the time of, or after the film was released? Any recollection of anything else that might have been in the same issue?

Another question, are you confident of that the spelling "Kzinretti" was used in the source? (I just want to be sure that if it is a misspelling it is original to the source. When poking around the internet, I was thinking that maybe it had just been mis-transcribed, since Niven's spelling for a female Kzin is Kzinrret and its plural is Kzinrretti. But if you are sure this specific spelling was used in the source, that might also help. On the other hand, if you're not sure one way or another, that might help too.) Again, thanks much!

Also, does anyone else reading this have any TFF-related Starlog issues or a copy of this "Handbook of Production Information" to aid in the investigation?