Sons of Mogh

[Danoz]

Does anybody else think the Federation solution to Kurn is sort of a cop out? How is erasing somebody's memory entirely so different than killing them? It's not. I think this was bad writing in general and one of the very few times Ds9 resorts to a warped Federation ethical workaround. Personally, I think Kurn could have survived and seen his brother challenge Galron in season seven to the restoration of their family name-- but no, instead of granting him a Klingon death or forcing him to a new life he listens to Dax's ridiculous plan of a memory wipe. This is a small house... isn't this a bit of an elaborate illusion? Would the entire family be in on it? Or would they just deal with it long enough for Kurn to finally die in battle.

I think Worf made a terrible decision here.


edit-- I take back the "bad writing" bit. Definitely not bad writing, just a bad decision on the Federation side and a tragic end to a good character like Kurn.

 

[Too Much Fun]

It's a sad, messed up idea and I could totally understand it being controversial, but I don't think it was bad writing. On the contrary, I found it to be a gutsy move on the part of the writers. It's way different than killing him...it's like letting him start all over again with a new life, for his own good, because Worf saw how much it hurt him to be who he was.

While it was a morally questionable and rather cruel and unfair thing to do to Kurn, I think ultimately it was also the merciful thing to do. It helped Kurn preserve his piece of mind. After all, the man was miserable and wanted to kill himself. I think being surgically altered into blissful ignorance was a much better alternative, questionable morality aside.

 

[Danoz]

It's a sad, messed up idea and I could totally understand it being controversial, but I don't think it was bad writing. On the contrary, I found it to be a gutsy move on the part of the writers. It's way different than killing him...it's like letting him start all over again with a new life, for his own good, because Worf saw how much it hurt him to be who he was.

While it was a morally questionable and rather cruel and unfair thing to do to Kurn, I think ultimately it was also the merciful thing to do. It helped Kurn preserve his piece of mind. After all, the man was miserable and wanted to kill himself. I think being surgically altered into blissful ignorance was a much better alternative, questionable morality aside.

True, "bad writing" is a bit of a stretch (and unfair for most of our Ds9 writers). Actually most of the episode is extremely well written and intriguing. I think I just find the episode tragic, more than anything, having really liked Kurn-- while at the same time seeing Worf abandon something so Klingon for human ethics.

 

[Unicron]

I think that's one of the key points of the ep, though - for all his attempts to assimilate Klingon values and principles, Worf is still not a "typical" Klingon. He has difficulty going back to the Empire, as he put it.

Incidentally, I happened to be reading on Memory Beta the other night that this issue came up in one of the DS9 novels.

 

[Anwar]

I'm surprised none of the elder Klingons Worf ever met pretty much just told him the truth to his face: What Worf expects and wants from his fellow Klingons is what he wants them to be, his idealized version. He never stops to think about what Klingons really ARE, or he just can't handle it.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I wondered why Kurn didn't simply join the Maquis. There was no love lost between the Cardies and Klingons anyway. Lots of opportunity for killing and random deaths going on there..and I suspect they could use a few good Klingons.

 

[Jono]

^ Joining the Maquis wouldn't have solved any of his problems. No matter what he did he would still be a Klingon without a name, without honour and without respect from his countrymen. That's why he went to Worf, he wanted to get an honourable death. Eventually if they didn't mind wipe him he would have been forced to leave the station and probably would have just merceranied himself out to whatever conflict he could and hope to die that way, even if without honour.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

I am going to go with bad writing. It was a cop out plain and simple. It completely ignored both Klingon ethics and Klingon religious belief. Does Worf believe in Stovokor? Does he believe you need an honorable death to get there? Is what he did to Kurn honorable. I think it is something of a stretch to believe that any other Klingon would go along with this plan or even that the plan would ultimately be successful. How was the Klingon who accepted Kurn into his house going to keep up this pretense?

 

[Anwar]

I agree it was a rather dishonorable thing to do. Don't they continue this in the DS9 novels? There's a bit where Kurn gets hit with some weapon that brings back his remaining memories, and he realizes that Worf must have done this to him. He's not happy.

 

[Jono]

Good old Sisko, he's willing to support Worf murdering the head of an allied state but won't let Worf perform a Klingon ritual for his brother.

And Dax, the Klingon Trill was quick to poo-poo long standing Klingon ritual and tradition.

 

[Kira Nerys]

Sisko seemed a little too faced to me at least when it came to klingon rituals.If it benefited the feds it was all right maybe that's way I never came to like the character.The above post reminded of that when reading thorough the thread .

 

[Navaros]

Sons of Mogh did indeed have an awful ending and awful writing because of it.

No way Bashir would agree to remove Kurn's memories without his consent. That would be completely unethical and vastly OOC for Bashir.

It is also OOC for Worf since erasing Kurn's memories is highly dishonorable.

This is one of the times when the DS9 showrunners are guilty of tacking-on a lame tech solution ending at the last minute, the likes of which they so despised in TNG.

Sons of Mogh really should have been a two-parter, with the second part about resolving the situation in an acceptable (not OOC for anybody) and dramatically-worthy manner.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Kurn was a suicidal wreck - without his memory wipe, he would have soon found a way to die; he almost died twice in the episode.

From a klingon perspective, one could argue that it's preferable to die than to loose one's memories. Then again, killing is the klingon national sport.

From a human moral perspective, having one's memories wiped and living a satisfactory life is much better than dying.
I disagree with the notion that loosing one's memories is equal to dying. A person is much more than the sum of its memories. And there is always the possibility of regaining one's memories later.

 

[cml898]

My only problem with it later on is that it wasn't all that long before Worf was able to regain his family honor. When you consider that, erasing Kurn's memories is truly tragic.

 

[Anwar]

Yep, I kind of figured Worf would end up regaining what he lost (again) which meant the story was basically pointless. And cruel.

 

[psikeyhackr]

http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/3EFBFFFF0181AEE4001700A6E1A3/

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

My only problem with it later on is that it wasn't all that long before Worf was able to regain his family honor. When you consider that, erasing Kurn's memories is truly tragic.

Worf didn't regain his family honor. He joined another family. The House of Mogh ceased to exist and he then became a member of the House of Martok.

But yeah, it wasn't that good of a an ending. Especially Bashir's willingness to conduct a mindwipe without even having the patient's consent (or his knowledge that the procedure is about to be conducted). Didn't Bashir actually commit a crime here? Why didn't Odo arrest him for that?


"Doctor, I've got a suicidal brother. Could you please erase his memory, so that he doesn't want to kill himself anymore?"

"Why don't you try to send him to a counselor first?"

"Klingons hate counselors. And it wouldn't do any good anyway."

"Did your brother put you up to this memory erasure thing?"

"Nope."

"Did he at least agree to this?"

"Nope."

"So he doesn't even know about this?"

"Not really."

"Well, that's not my problem. Let's do it."

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Kurn was my favorite Klingon, even above Worf. I was really sad about what happened to Kurn at the end of "Sons of Mogh." I love the actor too - he does an awesome job.

I must say, though, that as I watched Worf and Kurn performing the ritual in his quarters, the first thing that went through my head was "Why, oh God, why Worf didn't you ask for a week's worth of leave, and do this *somewhere else*? I mean, God, Picard and Riker practically almost court-martialed you for burning incense on the Enterprise."

The really sad part about Kurn's story is that he allowed his honor to be dictated by people without honor and lost faith in his brother. He felt he had lost his honor because Worf and Kurn lost their honor in the eyes of other Klingons. Worf knew better when Gowron threatened him with the downfall of the House of Mogh that he would have nothing "except his Honor."

Although, I do agree with what was said earlier in that Worf, not growing up with Klingons, has an idealized view of Klingons and Klingon honor.

 

[Red Ranger]

I'm not crazy about this ep for several reasons, but esp. as they basically wound up "killing" Kurn by erasing his memory. I agree it was a cop-out. Waste of a good character. -- RR

 

[Jono]

We are probably lucky he appeared at all. This is one of those situations where you can see them dismissing Kurn entirely with a bit of dialogue in a random episode.

Dax: Didn't you have a brother?
Worf: We no longer speak <broody look>

They somewhat address many of these concerns in the DS9 companion.