Something odd in "Brothers"

[Reeborg]

I recently rewatched the episode on BD, and I was wondering (not for the first time) about one thing:
How and why was the brother responsible for the illness of the younger one? They had access to an environment where there was dangerous fruit growing and the kid ate one not even knowing what it was. The responsibilty would rather fall to either Worf when that area was restricted and the child easily got in or (e.g.) to the Captain/Doctor when it was a general hazard for everybody not knowing.

I don't understand the logic to blame the brother.

 

[Timo]

I guess the point was that going to where the fruit grew (that is, outside an established safe zone) was strictly forbidden, and the big brother forced the circumstances where the kid brother broke the rules.

I could easily see that sort of thing happening on most of the "wilderness" shore leaves our heroes take. They essentially beam down on a random spot of a planet, and the best they can ever hope to achieve is making that one spot more or less safe. Going beyond the limits would be at the personal risk and responsibility of the loiterer, as it's impossible to secure an entire planet. And kids either learn or die, this being highly appropriate in a situation where they are being taken along to dangerous places on the very condition that they can behave themselves. If there were a desire to keep the child alive at all costs, he would not be aboard a starship.

Interestingly, here we hear the kid went beyond the "east arcade", suggesting there was infrastructure or at least architecture down on the planet. How do the builders of that arcade cope with the poisonous fruit? That is, as regards their kids, who supposedly aren't carefully selected on the basis of their survival skills in hostile environments?

Or was the location open for shore leave because the natives died out?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Reeborg]

I guess the point was that going to where the fruit grew (that is, outside an established safe zone) was strictly forbidden, and the big brother forced the circumstances where the kid brother broke the rules.

Interestingly, here we hear the kid went beyond the "east arcade", suggesting there was infrastructure or at least architecture down on the planet. How do the builders of that arcade cope with the poisonous fruit? That is, as regards their kids, who supposedly aren't carefully selected on the basis of their survival skills in hostile environments?

Or was the location open for shore leave because the natives died out?

Timo Saloniemi

Was it really on a planet? I did not hear such a reference. I thought it was an installation on the ship (kind of Arboretum). Apparently, the plant and fruit is at least generally known to adults otherwise Riker's question does not make any sense, so it would rather not be a newly discovered planet.

 

[JesterFace]

The thing that bothered me with 'Brothers' is that Lore just happened to be near enough to get to the "Soong residence" so fast after Data arrived... I mean, space is kinda big place and Lore might not have had the fastest ship...

Overthinking...

 

[Timo]

Was it really on a planet?

They specified "A two-day liberty on Ogus II". I doubt that's a designation for an area aboard the ship...

Apparently, the plant and fruit is at least generally known to adults otherwise Riker's question does not make any sense, so it would rather not be a newly discovered planet.

It's funny how so many of the shore leaves take place on planets newly discovered... But nothing in "Brothers" establishes Ogus II as a recent discovery.

Then again, it might well be that the cove palm is a common plant on many worlds, just like Homo sapiens is a common species on many planets. Active colonization by current species, or ancient transplantation by elder races, or even a phenomenon one would be hard pressed to classify as the doing of a culture, race or species... Make of that what you will, but there you have it.

(And no, we can't eliminate the possibility that modern Federation colonists would have planted those trees. The cove palm might be a useful and indeed edible plant - it's just that you aren't supposed to eat it raw, or to eat the fruit part.)

Lore just happened to be near enough

That is a valid concern! Should we perhaps speculate that Lore was down on the planet all along, spying on Soong and waiting for his moment? It's not as if the E-D observed anybody approaching, after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jedman67]

Maybe Lore was trailing the enterprise in a cloaked shuttle for the past few years?

 

[JesterFace]

That is a valid concern! Should we perhaps speculate that Lore was down on the planet all along, spying on Soong and waiting for his moment? It's not as if the E-D observed anybody approaching, after all.

Timo Saloniemi

I think you just saved the episode for those who like it. =)

Although... That raises another question, where did he transport to after he left near the end of the episode? If he just transported to another location on the planet, it shouldn't be too hard to track him from the Enterprise? If he transported to a ship in orbit, he had to have a cloaking device on it, or it was way faster than the Enterprise so he got away.

Overthinking this, AGAIN!

 

[Timo]

Oh, clearly it was a setup by Soong all along. Once he has successfully summoned Data to the location, he goes behind the curtain and allows Lore to "kill" the Noo-9-2 lookalike android he recently built, creating the illusion that he himself is now dead. That frees him to commit fully to a life with the recently perfected 6-EE series of babedroids, now that neither of his sons has a reason to pester him any longer.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Babedroids? I was under the impression the preferred term was sexbots.

 

[jimbotron]

That plot setup was stupid. Riker himself said he took responsibility for the boys, and yet he's laying the guilt squarely on a child. He should be the one getting grilled.

Also, why are children being sent down to an alien planet that has infectious berries with zero supervision?

What kind of asshole parents go on sabbatical and dump their kids on a deep exploration starship? The whole point of a sabbatical is to get away from work, rest, and spend time with family.

 

[Nebusj]

I don't understand the logic to blame the brother.

Well, there's that bit where he tricked his younger brother into thinking he'd murdered him. That's the kind of thing you want people to do less of.

 

[Timo]

Whether somebody else gets grilled for real for what happened, we aren't told and can't tell. Today, lawyers would have a field day, or guns might be drawn, or whatever. In the 24th century, children are simply expected to cope, though: there's very little pampering or parental presence in evidence, and the recommended post-traumatic treatment for kids is solitary confinement, as seen at least twice. Parents die, kids die, shit happens. Perhaps there's a special sub-caliber round in the torpedo magazines for burying small children? It's a new sort of frontier life, is all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Reeborg]

Was it really on a planet?

They specified "A two-day liberty on Ogus II". I doubt that's a designation for an area aboard the ship...

Timo Saloniemi

Aha ok. Thanks.
Another question: At the end when Data said goodbye to Soong and came back to the ship, it is not directly shown or said whether Dr. Soong already died or not. So maybe he still lived several years after the episode? Was his death specifically mentioned at some point in the series?

 

[Timo]

Even if it were, it would probably still be based solely on Data claiming that Soong died in his presence. Which would establish little, as Soong had faked his death at least once already, and Data would be motivated to help him do it again. Or alternately, Data could be fooled to helping him in this.

What we definitely do not get is references to somebody going down to the planet to deal with the aftermath, or to Soong's corpse being buried or cremated or shot into space or phased or whatever.

But the 24th century heroes are "callous" with death that way. Perhaps lack of inquiry in general is only because somebody's tricorder already recorded the whole thing anyway? Or perhaps death just isn't that big a deal in their worldview.

Did Picard leave Kirk's corpse to be eaten by buzzards, or did he point it to his crew for "proper" burial? The situations could be a bit analogous, with a legend presumed dead finally ending up dead for real, and the world not needing to know.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Old Mixer]

It's hard to get all worked up over the death of somebody you'd thought had already been dead for decades....

 

[Mojochi]

What kind of asshole parents go on sabbatical and dump their kids on a deep exploration starship? The whole point of a sabbatical is to get away from work, rest, and spend time with family.

Beverly split on Wes. lol just kidding

Ultimately, that's the only thing I have a hard time getting past in this episode. The rest may be overly concocted, but not a story killer, but that parents leave their kids alone on a deep space vessel seems idiotic. It's already hard enough to accept that there's kids there at all, but that people bring them way out there & then just wander off is too much

 

[Timo]

But nuclear families have chiefly emerged because we work for pay. People in the 24th century don't. So it might well be back to extended families again, with child care entrusted to fairly distant relatives and acquaintances, although this time for general convenience rather than out of necessity to allow for foraging or harvesting parties.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Children who are sent down to planets must be given briefings for what is safe and what is not safe to do. However when you believe you have murdered your brother an adult can not be expected to be in a rational state of mind, much less a child. It was a prank that crossed the line that put him in that irrational state.

It is pretty odd that the parents weren't on the ship. It's one thing to believe that the Federation's flag ship is a community with civilians and children, it's another to believe that children are allowed to stay there without guardians. But I guess that was also the case for Jeremy Astor? Exactly how many unsupervised children are roaming about this ship?

 

[Mojochi]

If Clara Sutter is any example, a lot. Lol
Even a single parent can't monitor them full time, & they're screwed if something kills them in the line of duty

 

[Nebusj]

It is pretty odd that the parents weren't on the ship. It's one thing to believe that the Federation's flag ship is a community with civilians and children, it's another to believe that children are allowed to stay there without guardians. But I guess that was also the case for Jeremy Astor? Exactly how many unsupervised children are roaming about this ship?

Why would you imagine them to be unsupervised, or to have no guardian aboard ship while their parents were temporarily away?

 

[Mojochi]

I just don't get it. If anyone had no reason to be onboard, adult or child, why would they be? Why wouldn't you homestead somewhere? I understand that they want the people who have reason to be there to feel like it is a home, but it is still a deep space service vessel. No matter how natural an environment they make it, it is still not as stable an environment than living on a planet. The only reason for them to be there at all is that they have family working there. If not, then they shouldn't be. Even a space station would be a more suitable home, than being along for the ride on official Starfleet missions

 

[Nebusj]

The only reason for them to be there at all is that they have family working there. If not, then they shouldn't be. Even a space station would be a more suitable home, than being along for the ride on official Starfleet missions

Really? Suppose the parents are going to be away for, say, four weeks on a temporary posting. Is it worth ripping the kids out of school, taking them away from their friends, their teachers, their home, and shoving them into a new routine for the temporary assignment? When they could be left right where they've been fine for three years, and will be fine in 28 days, if their parents go to the outrageous and extreme duress of ... finding a babysitter?