Sisko and Cardassians

[TerokNor]

How did Sisko feel towards the Cardassians?

I always got the feeling, that Sisko was one who actually liked them quite well... he was fascinated by them, liked their intelligence and he felt also pitty for them, knowing the reasons why that planet developed how it did.
He didn´t like a lot of the things they were doing, but he always came across very open-minded and as if he would be the first to embrace them and help them, should they ever decite to be friends.
Or is that just the Federation way, that we see in him?
But for him it always seemed very strong, as if he would give them chance after chance after chance no matter how often theyd mess it up. Maybe thats also the "being a father" part. Thats one statement "Dukat is the evil" or so, seemed therefore so out of character for Sisko in my opinion.


TerokNor

 

[Jono]

I don't think Sisko liked or disliked the Cardassians as a people. As far as I can recall he did not seem to have any significant history concerning the Cardassians, like O'Brien did for example. That would help him have an open-mind when dealing with them, plus the fact that Sisko would realise that he would need to have a functioning and (hopefully) positive relationship with the Cardassians for his and Starfleet's position in Bajor to be workable, the Cardassians are right there and Starfleet is supposed to be far away.

Just because Sisko might have generally liked the Cardassian people doesn't mean he can't dislike or view individuals unfavourably. I don't Sisko ever really liked Dukat, he was partly the devil Sisko knew.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I do not see why it is out of character for Sisko to call an individual what he is. Condemning Dukat and his evil is in no way a condemnation of the entire Cardassian race.

I think he had no love for the Cardassian government--and why should he? Its acts were despicable. I do think he was able to take each Cardassian he encountered as an individual, though (in a way, for instance, that Kira and O'Brien could not), and consider what that particular person was like before he drew any conclusions about them.

 

[JarodRussell]

Most people seem to have a problem, either they like everyone or no one (not to get too political here, but you could clearly see that when Obama replaced Bush, first it was all like "Bush is a dumbass - all Americans are dumb!", and now it's "Wow, Obama's great - Americans aren't so bad after all.").

Which is why some can't understand how Sisko for example can dislike Dukat, but at the same time like (or at least respects) the Cardassians.

Sisko also had respect for some individual Jem'Hadar, while he hated the Dominion.

 

[Praxius]

Sisko imo approached judging others similar to how I do.... I don't judge an entire race based on my experiences with one or two from that race.

I judge individuals based on their actions, I don't judge individuals based on their gender, race or whatever..... to do so would be prejudice and only closes doors.

 

[Mary Ann]

Sisko imo approached judging others similar to how I do.... I don't judge an entire race based on my experiences with one or two from that race.

I judge individuals based on their actions, I don't judge individuals based on their gender, race or whatever..... to do so would be prejudice and only closes doors.

Well said. One of the reasons Sisko is my favourite captain is because he judged everyone as individuals and didn't give a rodent's behind as to the individual's gender, species, etc. I like how the writers gave Sisko this mature open-mindedness but had other characters, like O'Brien, be prejudiced to keep it real, so to speak.

 

[ClayHefner]

He wasn't that open-minded when it came to Ferengi, though. By "The Jem'Hadar" this was still going on, and Quark rightfully adressed it.

 

[TerokNor]

Yes he looks at the individuals, which is good. However also with Dukat I never got the feeling he only disliked him. Felt more complex, as if he always still had hope to find the connection (like both being a father), the good part inside him.

That one sentences I found out of character, because in that episode it was clear, that Dukat was sick, evil too, but mostly sick. And I would have found it more in character for Sisko to see that...and not just falling into the black/white sheme of good and evil.

TerokNor

 

[indolover]

I never saw that Ben disliked, even despised, Cardassians.

I think he was neutral about them, and none of the crew showed any real hatred towards them. Even Kira. O'Brien said in TNG that he liked them fine even.

 

[DevilEyes]

Yes he looks at the individuals, which is good. However also with Dukat I never got the feeling he only disliked him. Felt more complex, as if he always still had hope to find the connection (like both being a father), the good part inside him.

The Sisko/Dukat dynamic certainly changed and went through different phases, and was more complex than just "he always disliked him". In episodes like The Maquis and Defiant, they even seemed to be 'bonding' somewhat over both being fathers, when Dukat talked about his children, Sisko would seem affected by it. In The Maquis, Sisko starts off by hating and thinking the absolute worst of Dukat (when he finds Dukat in his office and his first thought is if he hurt or kidnapped Jake), which is hardly surprising, since the previous time Dukat had been to the station, Sisko had learned about what he did with Rugal in order to hurt a political opponent. But later in the episode, he oscillates between annoyance at Dukat's arrogant and overbearing behavior, and a degree of respect - he certainly liked the way Dukat bluffed that freighter captain through attitude. And of course he mellows a bit at learning about Dukat's children, which was later continued in Defiant, another "Sisko and Dukat as allies" episode. That mix of irritation and almost-friendliness continued until Dukat's turnaround in season 5.

 

[Saxman1]

Yes he looks at the individuals, which is good. However also with Dukat I never got the feeling he only disliked him. Felt more complex, as if he always still had hope to find the connection (like both being a father), the good part inside him.

The Sisko/Dukat dynamic certainly changed and went through different phases, and was more complex than just "he always disliked him". In episodes like The Maquis and Defiant, they even seemed to be 'bonding' somewhat over both being fathers, when Dukat talked about his children, Sisko would seem affected by it. In The Maquis, Sisko starts off by hating and thinking the absolute worst of Dukat (when he finds Dukat in his office and his first thought is if he hurt or kidnapped Jake), which is hardly surprising, since the previous time Dukat had been to the station, Sisko had learned about what he did with Rugal in order to hurt a political opponent. But later in the episode, he oscillates between annoyance at Dukat's arrogant and overbearing behavior, and a degree of respect - he certainly liked the way Dukat bluffed that freighter captain through attitude. And of course he mellows a bit at learning about Dukat's children, which was later continued in Defiant, another "Sisko and Dukat as allies" episode. That mix of irritation and almost-friendliness continued until Dukat's turnaround in season 5.

I agree 100%. BTW, do the books ever address what happened to Cardassia after the war ended? Did Garak wind up being in charge? I read the first couple of relaunch books, but that was about it.

 

[sbk1234]

I never saw that Ben disliked, even despised, Cardassians.

I think he was neutral about them, and none of the crew showed any real hatred towards them. Even Kira. O'Brien said in TNG that he liked them fine even.

I think when Miles said that, he was trying to convince himself that he didn't have a problem with the race, although he still did. For example, in the episode with the Cardasian child raised by the Bajoran, he even says something like "Gentle was bread out of these people a long time ago." That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't still have issues with an entire race.

 

[DevilEyes]

I never saw that Ben disliked, even despised, Cardassians.

I think he was neutral about them, and none of the crew showed any real hatred towards them. Even Kira. O'Brien said in TNG that he liked them fine even.

I think when Miles said that, he was trying to convince himself that he didn't have a problem with the race, although he still did. For example, in the episode with the Cardasian child raised by the Bajoran, he even says something like "Gentle was bread out of these people a long time ago." That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't still have issues with an entire race.

Oh, he definitely was still racist towards Cardassians. But at least in "The Wounded" it seemed that he understood he had a problem and where it came from. That's why DS9 put him in those situations, like having to tell Rugal that not all Cardassians are bad, or working with the Cardassian engineer in "Destiny" and having his expectations subverted.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That was CLASSIC in "Destiny" when it turned out that Gilora was sexist instead of racist. AND that she was hitting on O'Brien, not trying to be mean!