Should we actually embrace a Matrix type of future?

[Jayson1]

I mean you don't want the machines to come in and swap bodies, thus killing you but in theory wouldn't a computer generated world actually be a upgrade over reality? For starters you could no doubt program your avator which I guess is what we would call our computer imagine of ourselves to look like we want to look like and it could last our entire life. No aging an if you don't think your good looking just go with a profile you like better. Plus as computer generated image you could program yourself to not feel pain. It would be like the ultimate pain medicine without the dangers of actually taking meds that might harm your actual body.

Another advantage is you could eat all you want since the food isn't real and the actual upkeep of your body would be left to machines who make sure you are actually getting taking care of better than even most of us tend to do. Also when it comes to violence you can just avoid any attacker but transfering your image to some other local and even if someone does you some harm you can just alter the memories of it so you don't have to deal with the truma. I also asume that world everyone lives in would be able to be shaped by individuals in many different ways so if you want to go home and turn your house into a holodeck and spend the rest of day living on the Enterprise that would be okay or heck even if you wanted to stay within your fake world, within the bigger fake world that also would be a option.

Meanwhile the robots on the outside can maintain the enviroment and put a end to any more damage from climate change and also produce the needed food or energy ot whatever it is that maintains our, actual bodies for us.

Jason

 

[suarezguy]

It does sound pretty appealing, at least compared to a lot of other possible (maybe likely?) futures. But maybe the big problem is that if things seem too good to be true and/or you know your environment and perceptions are not real you can't enjoy them. It may be particularly bad with if you know people around you are portraying themselves not as they really are, then how much can you really trust, get close to, rely on them?

Also generally in fiction trying to alter memories rarely works out well, they somehow in some form survive and make you unsure of everything including what basically was or is real or not.

 

[Jayson1]

It does sound pretty appealing, at least compared to a lot of other possible (maybe likely?) futures. But maybe the big problem is that if things seem too good to be true and/or you know your environment and perceptions are not real you can't enjoy them. It may be particularly bad with if you know people around you are portraying themselves not as they really are, then how much can you really trust, get close to, rely on them?

Also generally in fiction trying to alter memories rarely works out well, they somehow in some form survive and make you unsure of everything including what basically was or is real or not.

In away don't we already sort of portray ourselves in away that we aren't? I mean when you first meet someone you don't instantly tell them all of your deep dark secrets and talk about all your flaws. You basically present the best version of yourself until you get comfortable and then you start to open up more, or at least I think that is how most people are. Me I tend to be split in that I am always afraid to be to honest because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings and I also don't want them to dislike me but I also feel guilty when I have a secret because it feels like lying.

As for altering memories I wonder if you could have some kind safeguards in place kind of like that Doctor Who episode were the British flying city was used a enslaved space whale to fly and it was torture to the animal so people blocked those memories but you had a choice to have them blocked or carrying on with the truth. This does present a negative possibility in that people might want to hurt people since they know they can erase the guilt but then again everyone would also have there on safeguards not to mention the ability to escape any dangerous situation so actually doing violence would be incredibly hard even if you had people trying to do it.

Jason

 

[mos6507]

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Meanwhile the robots on the outside can maintain the enviroment and put a end to any more damage from climate change and also produce the needed food or energy ot whatever it is that maintains our, actual bodies for us.

And who maintains the robots?

 

[Jayson1]

And who maintains the robots?

I would imagine the machines could maintain themselves if we have reached this level of technology. Still I think it could also be said that maybe the government leaders of each country, that is if countries still exist, could live outside of the Matrix to sort of maintain some kind of control over the machines and make sure the Matrix keeps running in a fair and smooth fashion.

One issue though would be in creating children. If people aren't actually around each other that might create some awkward situations. I am guessing the machines in "The Matrix" the movie had some kind of way of doing it and I think as long as the child is created with both parents blessing I guess it wouldn't be so bad if people didn't have real sex to conceive of the child though I wonder how raising a child in this kind of enviroment would be like. Perhaps you have to be 18 before you have the right to all the powers of the Matrix style enviroment, so until then you are limited to a basic human experience.

Jason

 

[Gary7]

@Jayson1 - "one issue thought would be in creating children." That would be a big problem, if everybody decided to join in. But, it could help solve an out of control population problem.

I could see a kind of special "alternative life" Matrix offered as a product and service.

Imagine if you paid $100,000 for a permanent slot in the Alternate Matrix. All expenses covered for the rest of your life. You get to select the life you're going to live -- meaning your location, economic status, career, friends, etc. And you'll sign a form where you acknowledge that you resign your current life and assets completely. The programming is set. You slip into your pod. You're "plugged in" and the switch is thrown. You wake up in the bed of your new home, having memories in that world going all the way back to your infancy. And that's your new life, with no memory of what was before.

Of course, you have to trust that "The Matrix Corp" is a company that will never go out of business during your lifetime.

I could see this as a population control option. Imagine you get to a point where you're just unhappy with life, and don't see much of a future... And after selling all your assets, you've got enough money to be inserted into The Matrix. If that life will give you a big boost in the quality of life, then... it may be a nice "second chance" at a better life. Only it's a 1 way trip. If enough people do this, they're "off the grid" of reality. No economic or physical footprint. If the cost for this would be attractive enough, you might see millions of people volunteering for this. That would take a big burden off the Earth, in terms of natural resources. But that's all predicated on a much better power grid infrastructure. The Matrix would have to be very inexpensive to run, per person.

 

[Jayson1]

@Jayson1 - "one issue thought would be in creating children." That would be a big problem, if everybody decided to join in. But, it could help solve an out of control population problem.

I could see a kind of special "alternative life" Matrix offered as a product and service.

Imagine if you paid $100,000 for a permanent slot in the Alternate Matrix. All expenses covered for the rest of your life. You get to select the life you're going to live -- meaning your location, economic status, career, friends, etc. And you'll sign a form where you acknowledge that you resign your current life and assets completely. The programming is set. You slip into your pod. You're "plugged in" and the switch is thrown. You wake up in the bed of your new home, having memories in that world going all the way back to your infancy. And that's your new life, with no memory of what was before.

Of course, you have to trust that "The Matrix Corp" is a company that will never go out of business during your lifetime.

I could see this as a population control option. Imagine you get to a point where you're just unhappy with life, and don't see much of a future... And after selling all your assets, you've got enough money to be inserted into The Matrix. If that life will give you a big boost in the quality of life, then... it may be a nice "second chance" at a better life. Only it's a 1 way trip. If enough people do this, they're "off the grid" of reality. No economic or physical footprint. If the cost for this would be attractive enough, you might see millions of people volunteering for this. That would take a big burden off the Earth, in terms of natural resources. But that's all predicated on a much better power grid infrastructure. The Matrix would have to be very inexpensive to run, per person.

In theory this world might even be seen as a real version of a afterlife. I mean if your memories are already being programed into some computer network so at what point do you even need a human body, anymore? You could even create children by simply creating a artificial intelligence program that is kind of blank and let it build it's own memories from what you teach it and what it learns from the world, much like the programs from the movie.. What if the next step of human evoultion would be to go from biological life to machine life, completely.

Jason

 

[Gary7]

In theory this world might even be seen as a real version of a afterlife. I mean if your memories are already being programed into some computer network so at what point do you even need a human body, anymore? You could even create children by simply creating a artificial intelligence program that is kind of blank and let it build it's own memories from what you teach it and what it learns from the world, much like the programs from the movie.. What if the next step of human evoultion would be to go from biological life to machine life, completely.

The general "Matrix" concept is that the human brain has been "harnessed" to participate in the program. Thus, each person has their own independent mind operating within the realm of the Matrix. If a person dies, it has no programming impact on the Matrix... other than the dispensing of the person's virtual assets, if any. What you're suggesting is that the person's entire mind and consciousness gets incorporated into the massive program of the Matrix. For all we know, if a person were to be copied, like a hologram, they'd only be an echo of the original person. Their entire "self" would die at that moment.

 

[Sibyl]

To the concept, I'm all for it, but I'd hope we could handle a more utopian version than the one presented in the movie (they addressed it, I know, but I would hope).

 

[Jayson1]

The general "Matrix" concept is that the human brain has been "harnessed" to participate in the program. Thus, each person has their own independent mind operating within the realm of the Matrix. If a person dies, it has no programming impact on the Matrix... other than the dispensing of the person's virtual assets, if any. What you're suggesting is that the person's entire mind and consciousness gets incorporated into the massive program of the Matrix. For all we know, if a person were to be copied, like a hologram, they'd only be an echo of the original person. Their entire "self" would die at that moment.

If we don't have souls and all we are is thought then I wonder if are thoughts that would already be hooked into the machine then the machine would just be seen as a extension of ourselves like a artificial limb or a heart transplant. Not so much as a brain dying but being upgraded though tech to a point where you no longer need to store your thoughts in the old container. As long as you don't have that moment were your thoughts ever stop and then I wonder if it would still be us.

I kind of think of the transfer not so much as being done after you die and then being rebooted in a new thing but something that never ends but switches over to new storage area while still being active.

Jason

 

[Gary7]

@Jayson1 - The brain isn't just another organ in the body, whereby it's complete neural map can be uploaded into a software system and emulated perfectly. The reason why, is that our brains are intimately integrated into our bodies via the spinal column. It's not just signals from the neural pathways of body parts, but there's also the hormonal flow. The body sends all kinds of complex signals to the brain that affect us. This is why we obtain such joy and misery from our body's sensations. Would a Matrix model of a human being entail a complete mimicry of the entire physiology down to the last molecule? If so, then there would be a complete virtual copy. You wouldn't be "transferred"... but "copied." And then what of your physical body? Well, you'd be terminated... euthanized, as they do for inmate executions. Death by injection, perhaps. Think of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That's a very good analogy. So you don't really continue. A copy of you does... And, in the end, what's the point for somebody to opt for that?
"I don't want to live my life as it is. Copy me into a Matrix and kill me, please." I don't think people would be up for that.

 

[psCargile]

Sounds like the ultimate safe space. I'll pass. I'd rather cope with reality than seek shelter from discomfort.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Sounds like the ultimate safe space. I'll pass. I'd rather cope with reality than seek shelter from discomfort.

Sounds like you just volunteered to be the robot mechanic!

 

[Jayson1]

@Jayson1 - The brain isn't just another organ in the body, whereby it's complete neural map can be uploaded into a software system and emulated perfectly. The reason why, is that our brains are intimately integrated into our bodies via the spinal column. It's not just signals from the neural pathways of body parts, but there's also the hormonal flow. The body sends all kinds of complex signals to the brain that affect us. This is why we obtain such joy and misery from our body's sensations. Would a Matrix model of a human being entail a complete mimicry of the entire physiology down to the last molecule? If so, then there would be a complete virtual copy. You wouldn't be "transferred"... but "copied." And then what of your physical body? Well, you'd be terminated... euthanized, as they do for inmate executions. Death by injection, perhaps. Think of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That's a very good analogy. So you don't really continue. A copy of you does... And, in the end, what's the point for somebody to opt for that?
"I don't want to live my life as it is. Copy me into a Matrix and kill me, please." I don't think people would be up for that.

I wonder though if things like the spinal column and the needs that come from our actual body could also be replicated with technology at some point were a machine and human body are basically the same thing. I guess the fiction version of this idea would be the human cylons from "Battlestar Galatica."

Jason

 

[Gary7]

I wonder though if things like the spinal column and the needs that come from our actual body could also be replicated with technology at some point were a machine and human body are basically the same thing. I guess the fiction version of this idea would be the human cylons from "Battlestar Galatica."

Jason

There comes a point where physical constraints on miniaturization are reached. You can only go so small. And that in turn limits how much electronic memory can be stored and accessed. It's one thing to have a body with electrical impulses, yet to forge a complete simulation of said body and not only facilitate simulated impulses but also have nanosecond response time on every possible form of physical variation... it's too much.

The human imagination is clearly ingenious and has been able to bring into realization things imagined. But it is not unlimited. Even if we try to strike up the analogy of "well, before we went to the moon, most people thought it completely impossible -- yet we did it," does not mean you can carry that forward towards anything. It's one thing to be on the cusp of the electronic age beginning, but another to be deep within it and looking for the next mind blowing progression. I think in many respects we're "tapping out" on a lot of technologies. The areas remaining for continued improvement are power efficiency, power storage capacity, laser optics, and quantum processing.

The Matrix idea is very entertaining. But I hate to say it... that the biological existence has a longevity problem that won't survive the next incarnation of humanity. We are eventually going to perish, and all that will be left behind is the artificial intelligence that we constructed. That is our legacy, as a species.

 

[ralfy]

I imagine something like The Road, with any Matrix-like future centuries after.

 

[Jayson1]

I imagine something like The Road, with any Matrix-like future centuries after.

Sadly that is where I think we will be at in 50 years in reality. My future prediction chart is

10 to 20 years :"V and Vendetta"

50 years:"Mad Max" or "The Road"

100 years: Those "Life after People" documenties I think are shown on the History Channel or I forget what network they showed them on. Maybe a few humans will still be left but not many.

Jason

 

[Tenacity]

the man who slept though time. a novel. had something generally like this. a small percentage of the population maintain the majority who were sleepers.

until the minority decided to walk away.

i perfer reality. but i could see the advantage to the disabled and those who have trouble with modern real world.

might be a nice place to visit. but i wouldnt want to live there.

 

[Jayson1]

the man who slept though time. a novel. had something generally like this. a small percentage of the population maintain the majority who were sleepers.

until the minority decided to walk away.

i perfer reality. but i could see the advantage to the disabled and those who have trouble with modern real world.

might be a nice place to visit. but i wouldnt want to live there.

But if the Matrix feels like the real world isn't it the same as the real world? It's like you get all the good things reality has to offer but some bonus extra's as well. The other issue though is what would life be like for people who choose to live outside of the matrix. If there isn't many other people who want to do it anyone who does't go inside the Matrix might find the outside world to be very lonely. You then have issue's with the outside machines. Would they allow or would the humans inside allow humans to live in away that might interfere with the enviroment? Remember one of the advantages is that humans would not be out and about doing enviromental damage to the world. I might also be influenced in the movie "The Matrix." I don't want to go live in a dingy cave and have cave raves.

Jason