Should Verad Had Been Included in Jadzia's Zhian'tara?

[CmndrSela318]

First I wanna clear up any confusion.
Verad=Trill who stole Dax in season 2 episode 'Invasive Procedures'.
Yedrin=Dax host on barrier planet in season 5 episode 'Children of Time'.

Now to the topic of this thread.
When Jadzia got Dax back at the end of Invasive Procedures she told Sisko about Dax's memories of the short time joined to Verad. I guess since Jadzia had already interacted with Verad, there was no reason to include him. I think he should've been included. Now I wanna know what you think on this subject.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I think it was fine without. He doesn't really count as a Dax host, since he was only joined for a few hours. He stole the symbiont, rather than being chosen for joining. I'm not even sure if there was anything specifically Verad that stuck with Dax after the great Trill heist. I've always thought that once the joining is irreversible, that's when the new host starts leaving 'imprints' (for lack of a better word) on the symbiont.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

While generally I agree with what you said, this argument

He stole the symbiont, rather than being chosen for joining.

doesn't hold. Joran also stole the symbiont and was not chosen.

But I also don't see a reason why Verad should be included. He had Dax for a few hours, not a lifetime, so not that much to share with Jadzia. And what he had to share was also her past and probably not something she liked to recall.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'm not seeing anything about Joran stealing the symbiont, though there was a big cover-up involving the Symbiosis Commission's records of the joining.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Joran_Belar

 

[Gul Re'jal]

Well, my memory is not alpha

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, Joran didn't steal the symbiont, it just developed that the joined being was unstable.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Well, my memory is not alpha

LOL, it's OK. I assume you were just remembering the redacted version of the records.

 

[LeadHead]

There was no need for Verad to be a part of the Zhian'tara, he was still alive and in prison. (I assume) The Zhian'tara allows you to meet the dead.

 

[DonIago]

That's a pretty good point.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Besides, who but John Glover could ever play John Glover?

 

[trecko]

Forgive me if it is slightly off-topic (I agree that Verad was a host and it would have been interesting to have him included in Jadzia's "exploration"), but I have a question about this episode.
Does anyone else wonder how Curzon/Odo managed to drink when they were joined? Where did the alcohol go? Did it affect him? The writers just seemed to ignore this.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^Yes, I wondered about Curzon/Odo's drinking, too. It didn't really make sense. Maybe the assumption was that the temporary transfer of memories might have a different effect on a changeling than on a solid?

But I don't think Verad belonged in the Zhian'tara, for all the reasons others have given.

 

[Kytee]

There was no need for Verad to be a part of the Zhian'tara, he was still alive and in prison. (I assume) The Zhian'tara allows you to meet the dead.

It's been a while since I saw the episode but wouldn't Verad have died from having the symbiot removed? it might have been said since it wasn't in him long enough, he could survive the removal, need to watch this series again

CG

 

[Tora Ziyal]

There was no need for Verad to be a part of the Zhian'tara, he was still alive and in prison. (I assume) The Zhian'tara allows you to meet the dead.

It's been a while since I saw the episode but wouldn't Verad have died from having the symbiot removed? it might have been said since it wasn't in him long enough, he could survive the removal, need to watch this series again

CG

That's exactly what happened. They weren't completely joined yet, so removing the symbiont didn't hurt him.

 

[od0_ital]

Forgive me if it is slightly off-topic (I agree that Verad was a host and it would have been interesting to have him included in Jadzia's "exploration"), but I have a question about this episode.
Does anyone else wonder how Curzon/Odo managed to drink when they were joined? Where did the alcohol go? Did it affect him? The writers just seemed to ignore this.

^Yes, I wondered about Curzon/Odo's drinking, too. It didn't really make sense. Maybe the assumption was that the temporary transfer of memories might have a different effect on a changeling than on a solid?

As shown, the joinin' of Odo & Curzon had an effect on Odo physically - his hair and skin changed visibily, and I think they did a little something to his nose, too. Its possible that the mergin' of the two caused internal changes, as well, givin' Odo a digestive system. If not, it may be that the Curzon personality forced the internal changes just so he could consume alcohol without leavin' a mess.

 

[Farrens]

The real question is if the life memories of the host become apart of the symbiant or if only the shared experiences are remembered by it. In other words does dax have access to the early life memories of its previous hosts?

If so then Verad may have had a significant effect on Jadzia internal "balance" despite the brief joining (assuming three hours was long enough for the host to absorb his memory). If not then the few hours of the joining would likely be drowned out by the lifelong memories of the others.

 

[od0_ital]

^

I think the symbiot has access to childhood memories as well...I may be remberin' wrong, but didn't Jadzia's fear of heights come from one of her previous host memory of fallin' out a tree as a child? Think it came up in 'Equilibrium', if anyone wants to Netflix it...

 

[LeadHead]

I think that was about Curzon, I think it was referenced in "Equilibrium" too.

 

[defiantfan]

The tree fall was mentioned in "Equilibrium" but I think she climbed a tree hesitantly in "Meridan". NOW who has to contend with painful memories? :ointing to self::

 

[Paradon]

I think it would have been nice too see how those awful memories affected her. I'm sure those criminals have been through some hell and she acted like those memories didn't even bother her. I know she's a strong person, but trauma can cause a person to act differently. I'm not saying she would become a criminal herself, but they haven't showed nearly enough. I think that's why she was cynical at time. She tried not to show it.

Maybe I like to see her developing emotional problems from these bad memories, gotten out of control...and maybe step on the toes of the wrong person, and then got killed. I don't think she did anything to Dukat for him to kill her like that. Dukat's problems were mostly with Sisko and Kiara. You know what they say. Be careful what you wished for because you might get it. I think that statement is true becaue people looking for troubles will often find them.