Should the movie be made to look and feel Epic?

[Capt_David_Duke]

This is my first ever post so here it goes. The Motion Picture to me was considered Epic science fiction on a grand scale when I saw it on opening day 28 yrs ago. Recently the past movies was obsolete of science fiction awe and adventure of the unknown and just didn't appeal to me compared to TMP. Since it has been awhile since Nemesis was made, do you think the writers consulted with science fiction novelists and nasa scientists like they did in TMP for ideas to stimulate the mind so they can give us a huge long epic. To me now is the oportunity to deliver a awe visually inspiring trip into the unknown with adventure and mystery for our beloved replicas of our original crew instead of the usuall humanoid villian every 2 yrs. Do you agree?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

They can't afford to make it like TMP - too slow-moving. The idea here is to re-vitalize Star Trek, which is now widely regarded as an irrelevant joke, and to do that, you need known quantities (Spock, Kirk, Enterprise) and a fast-paced, action-packed script that delivers entertainment value to people who know little about Star Trek but just want to go to the movies and have fun.

That doesn't mean the movie can't be good (Spider-Man 2 was a good movie and a good action movie) or that it can't also cater to the things fans want. But the known quantity/action-packed formula I've cited above will determine the box office and therefore the future of Star Trek.

Now is not the time to get fancy. Star Trek hasn't been revived yet.

 

[seigezunt]

if by epic, you mean BIG, screen-filling movie, then I agree. The problem with the TNG movies is they felt and looked like extended TV episodes. Pull out the stops.

 

[Sharr Khan]

seigezunt said:
if by epic, you mean BIG, screen-filling movie, then I agree. The problem with the TNG movies is they felt and looked like extended TV episodes. Pull out the stops.

Exactly so!
The movie can "be about something", I've little doubt that this movie will have a heart so to speak, some inner meaning.

But it shouldn't be ponderous, or overly concern itself with crossing the T's and dotting the I's when it comes to the "science" - Look Star Trek isn't, and never was "2001", when it tries to be its a total turn-off. Infact "epic" is the last word I think of when I think TMP.

I want an epic, something grandiose and of universal import but not gray and ponderous or trying to be to smart for its own good.

do you think the writers consulted with science fiction novelists and nasa scientists like they did in TMP for ideas to stimulate the mind so they can give us a huge long epic.

No, nor do I assume it follows any of that helped TMP be a good story (not that it wasn't "The Changeling" made a bit bigger for the screen or anything).

Chances are friendship will be at the heart of this film not some abstraction without meaning to most of the audience or Trek itself.

Getting a bunch of scientists to consult with it does not follow you'll get good entertainment.

Sharr

 

[Dale]

I want to see TOS Enterprise, just as I remember her, but with her scope and scale and majesty finally communicated on the big screen. I want to see the camraderie and the fun of TOS characters, but placed in epic situations. TWOK and beyond were all fine films, but they changed so much about Trek in translating it to the big screen. I want to see a film that keeps TOS look and feel but somehow makes it all bigger and more intense. If Abrams can give me, somehow, something that has the fun of an episode and the scale of a movie, it'll work for me. It must not move slow, but it must not be all fast-paced action and adventure, either.

 

[seigezunt]

dalehoppert said:
I want to see TOS Enterprise, just as I remember her, but with her scope and scale and majesty finally communicated on the big screen. I want to see the camraderie and the fun of TOS characters, but placed in epic situations. TWOK and beyond were all fine films, but they changed so much about Trek in translating it to the big screen. I want to see a film that keeps TOS look and feel but somehow makes it all bigger and more intense. If Abrams can give me, somehow, something that has the fun of an episode and the scale of a movie, it'll work for me. It must not move slow, but it must not be all fast-paced action and adventure, either.

can I get an "amen"? :thumbsup:

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Interesting user name.

 

[Dale]

UWC Defiance said:
Interesting user name.

Yeah, caught that. Could be an ugly coincidence, I suppose. Best wait and see what else he posts...

 

[xortex]

The motion picture certainly tried to be epic in scope with Robert wise directing. At least it tryed to be awe inspiring. It certainly could have been heated up alot more if they brought back the klingons and something else from v'ger's vast memories that tied it in more on a personal level with more meaning and mystery than they were willing to discover. They didn't develop the story enough. I think people are willing to accept a greater amount of complexity in their atory than ever before. I learned never to underestimate the intelligence of children these days. The movie didn't go far enough for me. Metaphysics is what makes us recognize ourselves in complex themes and concepts.

 

[seigezunt]

UWC Defiance said:
Interesting user name.

oh..snap!

do I hear a rustle of sheets? If so, be warned! They's a Jew in this thread, boy!

 

[Amaris]

Capt_David_Duke said:
This is my first ever post so here it goes. The Motion Picture to me was considered Epic science fiction on a grand scale when I saw it on opening day 28 yrs ago. Recently the past movies was obsolete of science fiction awe and adventure of the unknown and just didn't appeal to me compared to TMP. Since it has been awhile since Nemesis was made, do you think the writers consulted with science fiction novelists and nasa scientists like they did in TMP for ideas to stimulate the mind so they can give us a huge long epic. To me now is the oportunity to deliver a awe visually inspiring trip into the unknown with adventure and mystery for our beloved replicas of our original crew instead of the usuall humanoid villian every 2 yrs. Do you agree?

I agree. I love Trek, but I'm tired of BFOTW (Bumpy Forehead of the Week) aliens. I understand that on a series it would have to be tightly controlled because of budget constraints, but in a movie, I want to see real alien aliens, something we're not accustomed to seeing. Let's see some crazy new worlds. I want space to be unknown again, rather than "we're escorting the Jahndo Ambassador to Generica 4". An epic scope, which TMP tried to capture, but well done and well played. Don't get me wrong, I like TMP, but I don't think they succeeded. Oh, the ideas were grand enough, but I just don't think everything else held.

-J.

 

[23skidoo]

Capt_David_Duke said:
This is my first ever post so here it goes. The Motion Picture to me was considered Epic science fiction on a grand scale when I saw it on opening day 28 yrs ago. Recently the past movies was obsolete of science fiction awe and adventure of the unknown and just didn't appeal to me compared to TMP. Since it has been awhile since Nemesis was made, do you think the writers consulted with science fiction novelists and nasa scientists like they did in TMP for ideas to stimulate the mind so they can give us a huge long epic. To me now is the oportunity to deliver a awe visually inspiring trip into the unknown with adventure and mystery for our beloved replicas of our original crew instead of the usuall humanoid villian every 2 yrs. Do you agree?

One of the repeated complaints about Treks II through X was that they looked like they were simply TV episodes imported for the big screen. I always thought that was unfair because I felt that was usually just a knee-jerk reaction to the films being based on a TV show and the critics turning their noses up at them. (It was one of their stock criticisms along with "they're too old" which oddly was never applied to the TNG crew even though by the time of Nemesis they were all around the same age (or getting there) of the TOS cast by the time Wrath of Khan came out...

Anyway, on point, yes I do feel the film should have some an epic scope, even if it means taking a few minutes away from the story to go "ahhhhhh" as was done in TMP. Not saying they should take it to extremes (much as I loved the TMP sequence with the shuttle going around the Enterprise, it was just fanwank), but they need some extra hook, rather than it being just a bunch of talking (bumpy fore-)heads.

Cheers!

Alex

 

[Cary L. Brown]

seigezunt said:if by epic, you mean BIG, screen-filling movie, then I agree. The problem with the TNG movies is they felt and looked like extended TV episodes. Pull out the stops.

AGREED.

But there's a danger there. The question is... what makes for "Epic."

None of the Trek movies except TWOK and FC had even a hint of that feel. And, Genesis aside, TWOK was really a very "personal" movie.

Making it "too big" doesn't make it "epic." Having the entire Romulan Senate wiped out, and a huge honkin' cruiser that can wipe out all life on Earth sure SOUNDS "epic" doesn't it? But... it really wasn't, was it?

Why? Because true EPICS paint massive events in very personal ways. It's not about the massive event, it's about how an individual (or sometimes several individuals, though that rarely works as well) and how they, PERSONALLY, experience these "massive events."

(1) The movie should feel REAL... more so than any recent Trek has.

(2) It should be a story about a PERSON... and the audience needs to connect deeply to that person. That's why, in a two-hour movie, you can't have "the entire cast of every series." Anyone who doesn't care about those characters won't LEARN to care... just not enough time in one movie for that to happen.

(3) And it should reflect real change, growth, and risk.

(4) And finally, it should not play "arteest" with things that are not really relevant to the story. The story must be the focus... everything else is just set dressing.

 

[Profhig]

I'd like to see some TMP style epic like visuals, but not at the expense of the story. I'm sure our first view of the Enterprise will be emotionally stunning, we just don't need it to be a 10 minute camera pan! I personally love TMP, but I can see why most people found it rather boring. I feel that Bob Wise's epic movie musical experiences may have had something to do with the way TMP flowed, it has a similar feel to The Sound of Music. That may sound weird, and maybe it's something that only I notice but I see it. Anyway, I want epic visuals and scenes, it's expected with a space movie. It just has to flow, and not distract!

On a side note, I feel that some of TMP special effects still hold up today! Especially things inside V'GER!

 

[Holytomato]

Epic= I define this word as a loooooong story arc.

Ex. What I call cliffhanger trilogies:

Lord of the Rings
Back to the Future

 

[Who_Trek]

Epic: Big in Oscar-buzz kind of big.

 

[The Borg Queen]

How about a war between the Q and the Bajoran Prophets, with the whole Galaxy at stake should either side win OR lose...

Let's see if Jean-Luc Picard is as good a diplomat as his reputation and position as Captain of the Federation's Flagship suggests.

That kind of situation is what I would describe as "epic" if I were to make a Star Trek movie.

As for Captain Kirk-era Star Trek? I dunno what to suggest, mostly because of screwing with established continuity whether it uses new or old aliens, unless there's a stupid giant reset button at the end of it.

 

[Australis]

Guys, think LOTR. That was epic but on a scale we could get a handle on, s better idea than a mere human trying to separate two superhuman races. They could see, comprehend and figure out his arguments before he's even thought of them.

 

[ChristopherPike]

The Motion Picture was the most epic of the Star Trek films, mainly because of the radical changes shifting to the big screen. Generations had that kind of potential but blew it by depicting what seemed to be yet another day at the office for TNG. Also the film should've done more with that Kirk goes Next Gen role and all those "fish out of water" elements.

There are many cinematic examples of epic stories but they usually deal with one individual from history or a tight focus on the head of a family. Take a look at the Star Wars films which although about the Skywalkers, have enough interest even in minor members of a supporting cast (due in no small part to the toy range). Hell there's even a Wedge fan club, based on than less than a page of dialogue!

Having a cast of thousands can work but actors in those background roles need to check their egos at the door, stand back and see the big picture. It's in that way I think a film could criss-cross almost the entire franchise, albeit with the central focus on a long lived character... say, a Vulcan for instance.

 

[Doomsday]

The word "epic" can imply different things to different people, so I just decided to look up the darn word in the dictionary to see what it "really" means, and then see how it relates to the new Trek movie.

As a noun, and relating to the words origins, it means a long narrative poem, which the dictionary describes as using "elevated style", and describes the deeds of a legendary hero.

When used as an adjective, it describes a story which extends beyond what would be usual or ordinary, in size or scope.

So the idea of an epic seems to imply that it must be about some "larger-than-life" concept, typically a universal-type threat. But just a big threat does not an epic make. What makes an epic is the legendary hero, who despite his/her flaws or weaknesses, rises above the challenges, usually at great personal cost or sacrifice (quite possibly even his/her life) and saves the world/galaxy/universe, etc.

And often, the legendary hero will also battle very personal struggles while fighting against the "epic" threat, which makes the story just as personal as it is big.

That's why I think LOTR keeps getting mentioned as the best recent example of an epic movie, and also Star Wars fits in to that.

Frodo is that legendary hero, as well as Luke Skywalker.

I believe that Captain Kirk definitely has that potential to be an epic legendary hero (rather than just a typical action hero who gets the girl and beats up bad guys).

If Abrams & co are wise enough to paint Kirk with that epic legendary hero brush, and give him an epic threat to fight, as well as a deep personal story to give it resonance(and assuming they cast an actor who is able to pull it off), Trek will have the potential to be considered an epic.

If, on the other hand, they just make a fun-to-watch action movie, it will still be good. But big explosions do not an epic make.

I wish I could remember who it was, that posted a suggested story line many many months ago in this very forum, that I thought had this epic potential if done right.

It was the idea about the movie starting with Kirk's personal failure(in his own eyes) on the Farragut, and how he rose above that to become the Captain of the Federation's premier starship. There's a lot of potential in that kind of story(if not in that precise story).

But, we shall see.