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Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

Shatnertage

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Hi there, Niners! Shatnertage here. I've just wrapped up a thread on the Voyager forum detailing my experiences watching that show for mostly the first time, and at the urging of folks on and off TBBS I'm going to spend the next few months watching Deep Space Nine.

I haven't posted much in this forum because this is now the sole Trek show that I'm not that familiar with. Some background: I grew up watching TOS and TAS in the 1970s; young as I was, I considered TOS a more boring, far inferior version of TAS at first. I tuned in eagerly for TNG as a freshman in high school, and then was bitterly disappointed along with my fellow Trek cabal-mates in the namby-pamby captain and the fact that they let a kid pilot the ship. Needless to say I got over those issues by about the time season 3 rolled around.

I remember watching "Emissary" and some early DS9, but because of my work/school schedule being pretty hectic I didn't watch much scheduled TV outside of MST3K and a few HBO shows for most of my college years. I've seen probably more than a dozen but less than two dozen DS9 episodes, scattered throughout the run. I remember one where Kira's boyfriend got a brain transplant, and one where Worf told Garak he wasn't his type. With one notable exception, it's all kind of hazy, though I know that there was something called the Dominion War, which I'm assuming we won.

I'm in a place now where chilling out to 42 minutes of simultaneously nostalgic and novel entertainment is pretty good. Watching the show with me will be my charming wife, who's endeared herself by pointing out continuity errors and logical impossibilities in plotlines--and agreeing with me, even when no one else did, the the White (actually ivory) Tux was not Janeway's finest hour fashionwise. We've also got a 3 year-old whose favorite Voyager character was Seven (why? "I like her sound" was her response) but who's also a fan of Picard and, for some reason, Degra. And there's a newborn who, at this stage, is mostly going to lead to many "too tired...didn't watch last night" posts.

I know that this show's been discussed and discussed and discussed for years now, but it's (mostly) new to me, and I found that sharing my thoughts with people in the Voyager Forum really helped me appreciate the show much better. Big thanks to everyone who regularly commented over there--it made the whole experience much more fun.

I'm going to approach DS9 the same way I approached Voyager--I won't read anyone else's reviews before watching. When I watched Enterprise two years ago I made the mistake of reading as many reviews as I could before and while I was watching. Some of them, like Jammer's, were pretty good, but some of them, like that bizarre "First TV Drama" site, were pretty bad, and tended to focus me on the negative.

I tend to enjoy both serious character exploration and the more light-hearted stuff. My absolute favorite moment in Voyager was the tease for "Tinker, Doctor, Tenor, Spy," but the final scene of "Counterpoint" is right up there, too. I try to focus on the positive, but, having been pooped on more than once over the past few weeks, when an episode poops on me, I'm not shy about raising my voice about it.

So hopefully if the kids cooperate I'll have something to write about tonight.
 
Whooo let's get this party started!

You are going to love DS9. I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say that most people consider the first two seasons the weakest, but that's only because seasons 3-7 kicked so much ass, it's tough to grade on a fair scale. :bolian:
 
I agree with Possum.

DS9 was most definitely strongest in seasons 3-7, but 1 and 2 had some really strong episodes.
 
1-2 aren't bad, IMO. Just a bit slower. I actually really enjoy 1. Maybe I'm just weird. Poor hubby used to pass out mid-episode while I was totally engrossed through most of 1. ;)

Either way, here's looking forward to "The Emissary" and a new Shatnertage review thread!
 
^ Yeah, there are a lot of real gems in the early years, including a couple of my favorites. I just didn't want Shat to feel discouraged in case he heard rumors . . . LOL.
 
Two first-timer threads in one month? It must be Christmas, or something. :techman:

I'm a committed Niner, so I'm obviously biased, but I don't think season 1 is as bad as you might have heard. It's a little dull, it failed to find its own direction, but it comes out roughly average in the end. Season 2 also has a bit of a bad reputation, but I think that has more to do with the fact that the show's main arc didn't really kick off until season 3 so season 2 is lumped in with season 1. In my opinion, season 2 is up there with the best seasons of TNG, but I guess that part of that is from the hindsight of knowing what comes later.
 
^ I tend to agree. Season 2 is really, really solid, and while it has a weak middle, there are some great runs at both the beginning and the end.
 
Well, I have been sent here--all the way from the living room couch--as a representative of sorts, to write about the first half of...

"Emissary"

Newborn-induced fatigue means my better half was falling asleep by the 45 minute mark, so the last we saw was Dax and Sisko heading out in the Rio Grande.

Me: "So...the ship is called the Rio Grande."

Her: "It's better than the Rhode Island."

I'm inclined to agree. I think I'll check out the "What would you name your runabout" thread. That was a runabout, right? I've got a great name that I'll share when I get there.

But this episode...interesting so far. Liked starting with the Star Wars crawl. Good that we finally get a captain who's also a parent (well, Kirk was one in TWoK and for part of TSfS, but you know what I mean). Impressive battle/destruction sequence setting up Sisko being a single parent.

Nice that O'Brien's here for some continuity with TNG. I enjoy Colm Meany's work a lot, so this is a treat. And it's fun to see Sisko and Kira meet cute.

Sisko's meeting with Picard, however, is anything but cute.

In fact, Picard is kind of a dick. Which makes me think it would be funny if someone put together clips of every time Picard acts like a dick. Like Superdickery, but with video clips instead.

We meet Quark, who Sisko talks into staying, then things kind of go off the rails a little. Down on the planet Sisko and Kai Opaka walk through a well and into the video for "Wrapped around Your Finger." Once down there, Sisko gets to touch a glowing barbell thingie that transports him back to his first meeting with his wife...which looks suspiciously like the place where Ransom saw Seven in "Equinox, Part II" (though naturally this was first). And the final scene of Planet of the Apes, for that matter. Gotta find and visit that beach next time I'm in SoCal.

As O'Brien is about to leave the Enterprise, I snarkily remark, "Well, they only had enough money for one scene with Sir Patrick." Then he walks in and I shout, "Don't leave yet! We found some more money! Act!" And O'Brien's farewell is oddly empty. Thought they might backtrack to "The Wounded" or something.

Then Odo sneaks into the Cardassian ship, the Rio Grande takes off, and I turn it off until we're not so exhausted.

Overall so far it's been a little slow. I'm trying to pick out who's going to be the break-out character/actor, like Robert Picardo in Voyager. The acting's pretty uneven. Avery Brooks has a magnificent voice and real charisma but is kind of choppy at times (the beach scene wasn't that great). Alexander Siddig seems, at this point, kind of like a poor man's Hugh Grant--he even does the charming Hugh Grant stuttering thing twice. It's difficult to read Rene Auberjonois as Odo so far. Colm Meany is solid. Nana Visitor has potential. Terry Farrell...seems a little inexperienced right now. The only one who really seems to own his character so far is Armin Shimerman as Quark. He seems completely at ease in his character. I forgot that Ferengi has butt foreheads, though. This is going to be tough! I liked Cirroc Lofton as Jake, too.

Once they started setting up what sounds like a quest things got a little confusing for me, but I'm looking forward to watching more.
 
"Emissary" is my second favorite of the pilots, "Caretaker" being first. I thought it was solid, but had it's faults.

And why so much Picard hate right now? Wouldn't you act standoffish if someone brought up your imprisonment and brainwashing, this is actually why I hated Sisko for a long time, but he acted very much in character, especially later on when you look at FC.

As for the acting: Avery gets much more settled (these are big shoes to step into) and his voice is divine (I love all of the voices of the captains but specifically the TNG-era ones), Alex Siddig isn't given a lot to work with the first few seasons so he's kind of Wesley . . . just less annoying, Odo is supposed to be hard to read so Rene is doing his part there, Colm he's just fine and my mother still calls him John C. Reilly, Nana gets so much better by the end she would be my third Trek female love, Terry . . . I think she gets better but I have a soft spot for Jadzia(second Trek female love), and Armin I believe seems the best due to all of his past Trek experience and Quark is amazing, Cirroc . . . all I can remember is that he's just a few years older than me and I had a huge crush on him when I was in my teens.
 
I'm being kind of funny with the Picard hate. The thing about that Superdickery site is that it's mostly based on showing the covers of Silver Age Superman comics, which show him doing incredibly dickish things to people. Within the context of the story inside, however, they make perfect sense. I just thought it would be funny if you strung together all of the scenes of Picard acting like a dick, but for good reason. "Lower Decks" has probably the best one.

I remember when I first saw this thinking Sisko was a real punk for sassing Picard like that, but now I've got to think I'd be pretty cold towards the guy who basically killed my wife.

This is one of the few scenes where Picard is not quite in command of the situation. There's "Chain of Command," of course, and "The Inner Light." My favorites are the end of "Tapestry" and the part of "The Defector" where Jarok asks him if he has children. And all of it's magnificent work from Sir Patrick.
 
My funny bone hit the door earlier so it's out of commission a little. :lol:

He can be a bit of a jerk sometimes. But this is the one time I'll ever defend him.

And I don't think I've ever seen something where Sir Patrick is less than stellar. All I remember of "Tapestry" is him in bed with Q. ;)
 
Hi, Shatnertage. Seems our Trek tastes finally cross paths, given that DS9 is my favourite Trek series, and while I like the others, I haven't seen the complete lot of any of them (something to do later in life).

Good first review actually. Emissary is a good pilot, but I always think it's a little overrated simply because Trek didn't have any amazing pilots, and it's the best of an average bunch.

But good to see you enjoying it so far. That bodes well for a lot of the episodes coming up.
 
Me: "So...the ship is called the Rio Grande."

Her: "It's better than the Rhode Island."
Sisko decided to name all of DS9's runabouts after famous Earth rivers, they make a joke about it at one point.

In fact, Picard is kind of a dick. Which makes me think it would be funny if someone put together clips of every time Picard acts like a dick. Like Superdickery, but with video clips instead.
You could try General Grin's continuing series of TNG recuts. In them, Picard is an evil madman that travels the galaxy spreading chaos and destruction. Here's a typical example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Bc22Xjf5s

It's interesting that you focus on Picard being a dick in this scene as most new viewers express a dislike for Sisko because they think he was being unfair to Picard (which is true, but that was kinda the point).
 
Sisko's relationship with Jake is one of my favorite things about DS9. Please keep in mind, though, that I could sit here right now and type of a list of "My 100 Favorite Things About DS9" without even stopping to think. But Sisko father-son bonding is definitely right up there.

I agree with you about the Sisko-Picard scenes. It's a hard scene for a Picard fan to relate to, emotionally. Like you, I have to remind myself that Sisko had a good reason for sassin' my captain. I had an easier time with this scene during rewatches, after I'd come to admire Sisko.

I'm interested to hear what you think of Odo during the first few eps. For some reason I can't recall, I couldn't stand Odo when DS9 first aired. Years later, when I sat down to do an organized rewatch, I couldn't even imagine not liking him. He was an instant favorite of mine the second time around, and remains so.
 
I'm in accord with pretty much everything said so far, esp. status of show as pilot; father-son relationship; potential of cast. What's struck me viewing again recently is how Sisko, Picard and Janeway are all pretty much by-the-rules officers who over time and by circumstances forced to bend the rules. Archer always felt like Kirk right out of the box, and in fact mellowed over time much the same way as the movie Kirk.
 
I think Sisko got into rule-bending pretty early. There are quite a few times even in the early eps when he'll do something follows the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
 
With luck, they'll even finish their's as well!;)
:alienblush: I'll finish that Babylon 5 thread eventually, I just haven't gotten around to it. My life has been very busy ever since I discovered Minecraft. I have to finish that thread before I can move on to DS9, and I really want to do DS9, so it will definitely happen, maybe.

Besides, would you be in a big hurry to watch more of Crusade? :p
 
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