SF LGBT Pride Day

[Gotham Central]

I did not accuse him of being responsible for this splitting because he chooses not to endure the racism because he makes this choice to not participate. That was his characterization and yours, not what I, in particular, ever stated.

What I stated was that I don't think segregated events is a long term solution to these issues.

What I stated was that, given his attitude toward Indy and me - notice that he's the one that has developed an entire racial narrative here toward us for simply having a different perspective - is more a part of the problem in my opinion than the solution.

On an aggregate level, because of my experiences in gay politics, yes, I think that there is shared responsibility for some of this - and his actions here have been illustrative of what I see coming from his side of the aisle when it comes to one particular event.

I never said that racism in "our own ranks" isn't an issue. Once again, that's a fact free characterization of what was stated. What I stated is that the objections cut both ways.

And when I read things like "You can't KNOW the experiences of the POC there." ...Well, okay, that's right - and Griffin can't KNOW my experiences or Indy's experience nor can he KNOW the experiences of any individual or group universally. Yet he's speaking as if he can. In other words, his own objections cut both ways. I can't speak for all HIV positive gay men of any race, but I can speak to that of myself and my ex and many others. I can speak from my experience - and that is precisely what I'm doing. Why is my experience or that of Indy not valid while his is - especially when we have never denied the validity of his personal perceptions or experiences?

You clearly did not read what I said...

I make no assumptions about what anyone there experienced personally beyond my own. That said having spoken to other POCs in the past about this, lets just say there are things that happen that you are not aware of and fortunately will not have to experience.

Where in that did I say I could speak for ANYONE ELSE?

However, as a person of color my perspective on what its like for people of color at such an event and in the larger community should carry more weight in such a discussion precisely because its a personal experience, not some theoretical experience. Just as I would be more likely to defer to your own experience as a person with HIV in said community. I have an idea of what its like, but I won't pretend to be an authority on it, and I certainly would not suggest that your experience is somehow not part of the larger narrative of life for people living with the same circumstance. Yet that's exactly what you, and more forcefully, Indy did.

My personal belief is that separate events remain necessary as long as "my community" is not welcome in "yours." One of the reasons that Pride exists at all is to create safe spaces where people can feel free to be and express themselves without fear of the oppression of others. If people are not feeling that at the mainstream parades they are going to create those safe spaces for themselves. That people want that safe and welcoming environment should be understood. Horatio is right that the knee jerk reaction seem to be to tell the people that want a safe space that they are segregating while not even for a moment suggesting that the mainstream community needs to clean house and actually take steps to ensure that people are welcome.

Im not involved in organizing anything, but I know what I've seen and experienced personally. So to have it casually dismissed (and then to have Indy suggest that I have some larger race issues ) is kind of annoying. Especially when the posters involved will never be subject to the same issues themselves.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I don't know how my name even got mentioned a few times in your arguments, but I have nothing to do with any of your discussions

I'm asking the Mods to please lock this thread as it's gone on a different direction.