Sexism and Feminism in TOS

[TiberiusK]

Hopefully, this isn't a debate we're all sick of. Was TOS sexist in its portrayal of women? Or, was it feminist at times?

Do you agree with this scholar, who writes, "With the demise of Number One, Star Trek's portrayal of women was to be, at best, ambivalent- wavering between an implicit belief in women as equals but an unwillingness to exemplify, in a tangible way, what was being professed."

Full article: Sexism and Feminism in the Star Trek Universe:

http://startrekdom.blogspot.com/2007/08/sexism-and-feminism-in-star-trek.html

 

[Shatmandu]

The show is the show. Vhat can be done?

Joe, middle-European

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It reminds me of a similar paper that I wrote for my communication elective course in my undergrad. It was a class on media and how woman were portrayed. The class was run by a Nazi feminist, who dressed and looked like a Barbie doll. She had it in for any guys in the class and constantly favored the girls. Our final paper was to be on three narrow thesis, that she picked, and we had to right our paper with in that constraint.

As a head-strong young man, I took one of those thesis on contradictory roles of women in television and altered it to the contradictory roles of women in science fiction television, especially in Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation and used DS9/VOY (Kira and Janeway) as counterpoint.

IIRC, I argued that Roddenberry produced shows, woman were both professionals (Uhura, Number One) and sex objects to be used/manipulated (Uhura, Rand, any number of guest stars). With TNG, all the women were care givers and not in the direct chain of command (Troi and Crusher). Women are often objectified into wearing revealing clothing or impractical uniforms (mini-skirts/form-fitting jumpers)-- something I touched upon as a difference that started after the two TOS pilots and continued into modern Trek with Troi and Crusher's uniforms/Seven of Nine's catsuit.

I also touched upon Babylon 5, which was my fixation at the time, and how it's women tended to be much stronger than the men.

I was rather pleased with my paper. After all, I had taken her perimeters and tailored to my own, thinking outside the box which I thought college was for. Of course, I got a failing grade for not sticking with her tight guidelines. I had a knock-out, drag down fight with her in her office. Eventually, she gave me a passing grade (C) on the paper, and passed me out of the class (B-) telling me not to show up for the last few sessions.

Oh, well. Wish I knew where I filed that paper. It's probably in a box in my parents' garage.

But I still like my Trek with mini-skirt Yeomans!

 

[Plum]

Urmmm... well, these essays always seem to come close but not quite make their case. Was Star Trek sexist? Of course it was, it's television.

Take two examples from the show. The character of 'Number One' in 'The Cage' and Riana from 'Requiem for Methuselah'.

Number One was nixed not because of the reason Nimoy stated in a crappy "clip show" from the 80s but because the Network (NBC) immediately said "get rid of the woman". Sure, having a female officer was progressive but those scenes still have really dated lines like "can't get used to a woman on the bridge" sort of thing... even though she's the first officer (?). Loved how she made a big ole sigh when told she was to left behind "because she's the most experienced officer". Yea, but she's a sour puss about it.

I suppose the point there is that certainly there's a load of sexism going on, yet there is an attempt to be progressive.

Riana... certainly she's quite the princess in the making for Flint. A 'femme de object' that's actually an object! But the article still misses the attempt the show makes towards female emancipation. Riana, watching the two manly men slug each other "over a woman" (to quote Kirk at his most melodramatic), stopped the show by shouting "I CHOOSE!"... which is the point is it not? Choice.

The article is a deconstruction. As all these articles seem to be. But they try too hard and lack knowledge of just how oppressive the times were then. Those mini-skirts, for example, could get you jailed in some states. And just having Uhura around made people nervous, but as long as they didn't realize she was a high ranking officer and thought she was just the ships secretary it was ok.

Star Trek is very much just as guilty of being populist trash as anything else, but I do appreciate that it tried.

Besides, when it comes to even a small thing, it can make all the difference. Right about now I'm gonna tell the Whoopie Goldberg story but I bet everyone knows it.

middyseafort said:
... thinking outside the box which I thought college was for. Of course, I got a failing grade for not sticking with her tight guidelines. I had a knock-out, drag down fight with her in her office. Eventually, she gave me a passing grade (C) on the paper, and passed me out of the class (B-) telling me not to show up for the last few sessions.

Ah, no, you learn very quickly you do what the professor thinks is right even if she is a nut! Welcome to 'real world' where education is abou fitting into a box, not the other way around.

But having said that... you got her to give you a pass! YOU are the Chuck Norris of students my man! Nice work!!! I'd put that on my cv.

 

[TiberiusK]

middyseafort said:
It reminds me of a similar paper that I wrote for my communication elective course in my undergrad. It was a class on media and how woman were portrayed. The class was run by a Nazi feminist, who dressed and looked like a Barbie doll. She had it in for any guys in the class and constantly favored the girls. Our final paper was to be on three narrow thesis, that she picked, and we had to right our paper with in that constraint.

As a head-strong young man, I took one of those thesis on contradictory roles of women in television and altered it to the contradictory roles of women in science fiction television, especially in Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation and used DS9/VOY (Kira and Janeway) as counterpoint.

IIRC, I argued that Roddenberry produced shows, woman were both professionals (Uhura, Number One) and sex objects to be used/manipulated (Uhura, Rand, any number of guest stars). With TNG, all the women were care givers and not in the direct chain of command (Troi and Crusher). Women are often objectified into wearing revealing clothing or impractical uniforms (mini-skirts/form-fitting jumpers)-- something I touched upon as a difference that started after the two TOS pilots and continued into modern Trek with Troi and Crusher's uniforms/Seven of Nine's catsuit.

I also touched upon Babylon 5, which was my fixation at the time, and how it's women tended to be much stronger than the men.

I was rather pleased with my paper. After all, I had taken her perimeters and tailored to my own, thinking outside the box which I thought college was for. Of course, I got a failing grade for not sticking with her tight guidelines. I had a knock-out, drag down fight with her in her office. Eventually, she gave me a passing grade (C) on the paper, and passed me out of the class (B-) telling me not to show up for the last few sessions.

Oh, well. Wish I knew where I filed that paper. It's probably in a box in my parents' garage.

But I still like my Trek with mini-skirt Yeomans!

Robin Roberts wrote a book called, Sexual Generations: Star Trek The Next Generation and Gender. I haven't read it, although it's on my bookshelf waiting. I believe she argues something very similar to your essay. Even with TNG, female roles tended to be stereotypically nuturing with the brief exceptions of Tasha Yar and Ro.

It's ironic to me though. Number One seems to be a stronger, more confident and independent woman than does Janeway. What does that say about Trek's 40 year depiction of women?

 

[TiberiusK]

Plum said:
Urmmm... well, these essays always seem to come close but not quite make their case. Was Star Trek sexist? Of course it was, it's television.

Take two examples from the show. The character of 'Number One' in 'The Cage' and Riana from 'Requiem for Methuselah'.

Number One was nixed not because of the reason Nimoy stated in a crappy "clip show" from the 80s but because the Network (NBC) immediately said "get rid of the woman". Sure, having a female officer was progressive but those scenes still have really dated lines like "can't get used to a woman on the bridge" sort of thing... even though she's the first officer (?). Loved how she made a big ole sigh when told she was to left behind "because she's the most experienced officer". Yea, but she's a sour puss about it.

I suppose the point there is that certainly there's a load of sexism going on, yet there is an attempt to be progressive.

Riana... certainly she's quite the princess in the making for Flint. A 'femme de object' that's actually an object! But the article still misses the attempt the show makes towards female emancipation. Riana, watching the two manly men slug each other "over a woman" (to quote Kirk at his most melodramatic), stopped the show by shouting "I CHOOSE!"... which is the point is it not? Choice.

The article is a deconstruction. As all these articles seem to be. But they try too hard and lack knowledge of just how oppressive the times were then. Those mini-skirts, for example, could get you jailed in some states. And just having Uhura around made people nervous, but as long as they didn't realize she was a high ranking officer and thought she was just the ships secretary it was ok.

Star Trek is very much just as guilty of being populist trash as anything else, but I do appreciate that it tried.

Besides, when it comes to even a small thing, it can make all the difference. Right about now I'm gonna tell the Whoopie Goldberg story but I bet everyone knows it.

Plum, you should be writing for Trekdom. Your posts always make me laugh.

It's the problem with deconstruction, especially cultural studies. So many authors miss that simple point: that even though Trek reflected its context, it still tried to challenge viewers with progressive ideas, etc.

I can imagine some of these profs criticizing an 1890s feminist novel as sexist because it doesn't survive a 2007 post-feminist deconstruction. Similarly, in 20 years, profs will be criticizing our TV programs because they use the term "African-American," which allegedly implies that somehow blacks are not fully American or need to be singled out as different. Thus, our use of the term reflects our racism, even if we're giving speeches on civil rights.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Plum said:

middyseafort said:
... thinking outside the box which I thought college was for. Of course, I got a failing grade for not sticking with her tight guidelines. I had a knock-out, drag down fight with her in her office. Eventually, she gave me a passing grade (C) on the paper, and passed me out of the class (B-) telling me not to show up for the last few sessions.

Ah, no, you learn very quickly you do what the professor thinks is right even if she is a nut! Welcome to 'real world' where education is about fitting into a box, not the other way around.

So, true. You'd think I'd have realized that since the class was an upper-division elective but I was stubborn, and still am. I still try to think outside the box and voice my concerns now that I am in graduate school; however, I do it with a softer, more diplomatic approach.

But having said that... you got her to give you a pass! YOU are the Chuck Norris of students my man! Nice work!!! I'd put that on my cv.

Thanks. I was a lot louder back then and I used the dreaded words a prof never wants to hear, "I'll take this to the dean, if I have to." Nowadays, I use a more diplomatic touch but still can argue with the best of them.

I've also learned that sometimes people will do things so as not to be bothered, such as the professor and my grade.

 

[Plum]

^^^
Don't think I didn't notice you fixed my spelling error.

The fact you got a Prof. to turn demonstrates you will not accept what you are feed and will get what you feel you rightfully deserve. THAT marks you as exceptional.

TiberiusK said:

Plum said:
Urmmm... well, these essays always seem to come close but not quite make their case. Was Star Trek sexist? Of course it was, it's television.

Take two examples from the show. The character of 'Number One' in 'The Cage' and Riana from 'Requiem for Methuselah'.

Number One was nixed not because of the reason Nimoy stated in a crappy "clip show" from the 80s but because the Network (NBC) immediately said "get rid of the woman". Sure, having a female officer was progressive but those scenes still have really dated lines like "can't get used to a woman on the bridge" sort of thing... even though she's the first officer (?). Loved how she made a big ole sigh when told she was to left behind "because she's the most experienced officer". Yea, but she's a sour puss about it.

I suppose the point there is that certainly there's a load of sexism going on, yet there is an attempt to be progressive.

Riana... certainly she's quite the princess in the making for Flint. A 'femme de object' that's actually an object! But the article still misses the attempt the show makes towards female emancipation. Riana, watching the two manly men slug each other "over a woman" (to quote Kirk at his most melodramatic), stopped the show by shouting "I CHOOSE!"... which is the point is it not? Choice.

The article is a deconstruction. As all these articles seem to be. But they try too hard and lack knowledge of just how oppressive the times were then. Those mini-skirts, for example, could get you jailed in some states. And just having Uhura around made people nervous, but as long as they didn't realize she was a high ranking officer and thought she was just the ships secretary it was ok.

Star Trek is very much just as guilty of being populist trash as anything else, but I do appreciate that it tried.

Besides, when it comes to even a small thing, it can make all the difference. Right about now I'm gonna tell the Whoopie Goldberg story but I bet everyone knows it.

Plum, you should be writing for Trekdom. Your posts always make me laugh.

It's the problem with deconstruction, especially cultural studies. So many authors miss that simple point: that even though Trek reflected its context, it still tried to challenge viewers with progressive ideas, etc.

I can imagine some of these profs criticizing an 1890s feminist novel as sexist because it doesn't survive a 2007 post-feminist deconstruction. Similarly, in 20 years, profs will be criticizing our TV programs because they use the term "African-American," which allegedly implies that somehow blacks are not fully American or need to be singled out as different. Thus, our use of the term reflects our racism, even if we're giving speeches on civil rights.

Thanks for the compliment. I think you're right, it seems to me to deconstruct a work of art (even Star Trek) has it's limits. Just as any analytical technique would. It's a good way to find hidden foibles and cultural touch stones, etc. but whether the detected (or devined) elements reflect such requires more information... I reckon.

I used to be into deconstructing shows, but found it could lead one astray.

But, hey, I never went to school so don't count on my assessment. I live on an island!

 

[A beaker full of death]

TiberiusK said:
Hopefully, this isn't a debate we're all sick of.

Speaking for myself: yeah. Sorry.

 

[Plum]

^^^
Beats arguing nacelle colour.

 

[TiberiusK]

In defense of the mini-skirt, they put Sally Kellerman in tight pants and she had a pretty offensive camel toe throughout the episode. The mini-skirt was a respectful choice, I guess.

 

[Plum]

^^^
Her slacks had a camel toe??? I gotta say, I just saw that ep last week and didn't notice that! I noticed she had a big arse though.

 

[TiberiusK]

Plum said:
^^^
Her slacks had a camel toe??? I gotta say, I just saw that ep last week and didn't notice that! I noticed she had a big arse though.

The had to film around it. Most of the time she stood around the set adjusting herself.

 

[Plum]

^^^
I donno, I'm looking through Trekcore and that's not a camel toe to me. *shrug*... I think we need Shatmandu to make a call on this one.

linky to Trekcore

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Plum said:
^^^
Her slacks had a camel toe??? I gotta say, I just saw that ep last week and didn't notice that! I noticed she had a big arse though.

For more on that camel toe, please see the movie version of M*A*S*H . Suffice to say, in all it's nakedness, the drapes do not match the carpet.

 

[TiberiusK]

Geez, how quickly we guys turn into pigs in the feminism thread.

 

[Plum]

Forgot about the shower scene in M*A*S*H

 

[Shaw]

The show had to be sold to advertisers and similarly had to sell to the television audiences of the late 60s. Did Star Trek want to do more? Yes. But the show was in a constant battle just to stay on the air.

Roddenberry was told to get rid of Number One, but that didn't stop her character from still making it to millions of television screens. And in a lot of ways the women were allowed to show more than just short skirts while not threatening the male power structure of the networks.

Best Example is Uhura.

While the part of communications officer may have been played off as a space age receptionist in some people's eyes, the job itself is actually a highly technical one.

Further, Uhura also shows significant mechanical skills, as when she is attempting a repair in Who Mourns for Adonais? (or when she locked Kirk out of communication in This Side of Paradise), Spock says that he can think of no one better suited for the job than her.

Does her character's aptitude end with communications tasks and equipment? No.

On a number of occasions Uhura has manned the navigation station (The Man Trap, The Naked Time and Court Martial for examples), showing that she has had extensive experience at that position, and may have held the position of navigator before moving to communications. She has also manned the library computer station (The Man Trap) showing that she has a background there as well. And when she has to be retrained in The Changeling, Chapel comments on the fact that she shows an aptitude for mathematics (countering the belief at the time that women were poor at mathematics).

And that is just what I can think of off hand.

Star Trek of the 60s had to play the hand it was dealt, but that didn't stop them from rebelling against what the network and advertisers were trying to get them to conform to. And in the end, maybe that was more than the audience of the 60s could handle.

But what attempts were made obviously counter a purely sexist or chauvinist bent on the part of the producers.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

TiberiusK said:
Geez, how quickly we guys turn into pigs in the feminism thread.

Well, it is also a sexism thread. Can't have one without the other in this type of discussion.

(Yeah, I'm going to hell. I know it. I've already reserved a penthouse suite and you are all invited.)

 

[Plum]

One penthouse suite in "the special Hell" please.

... Great points Shaw, bang on.