Seven of Nine: Deeper than the Catsuit!

[Red Ranger]

People:

I know there are many detractors to the character of Seven of Nine. However, I always liked the character and do know women who enjoy the character.

IMO, the character of Seven is deeper than just titillation for adolescent, hormone-crazed fanboys. I see Seven as a commentary on the dehumanization of technology, and how dependence on it can make people less than human.

I'm thinking of how, even then, people were becoming buried in their PCs and early cell phones. So her journey to reassert her humanity was a symbol of trying to remain human in the face of the increasing mechanization of society.

Her character also reminds me of that line from TOS ep Conscience of the King, when Karidian rails against Captain Kirk, claiming he was a product of an increasingly mechanized society, even accusing him of being "not very human."

What say you?

Red Ranger

 

[Guy Gardener]

Deeper spelt backwards is repeed. Repeed means that you urinate on something "again". The subject of this conversation is her Catsuit right? I do not see zippers or fasteners? Or... Full Borg probably don't pee. All waste would be extracted and recycled internally well before it got near any of the usual god intended exits. Forget that Anika had been Borg for 20 years and never had sex... She hadn't pooped in 20 years.

I mean, honestly there isn't it a ridiculous way that this conversation couldn't play out: "Seven... I want to talk to you about pooping. I would like you to Poop. It's a very human thing to do, but we'll have to surgically (re)create most of your plumbing and it'll only hurt the first time. Well, the first few times... You might need to sit on a special pillow for the first month."

There is not a winning argument in the universe to convince someone that after 20 years going cold turkey with the dookie that it's time to reopen the tunnel for daily use. Some caveins should stay cavedin. It's like when you get your ear pierced and wear an earring for a while then stop. The whole in your ear seals up. How many times are you damn well expected to keep piercing and repiercing that ear everytime you think it might be nice casually every few months to sport some earrings?

It's just insane.

I spend a lot of time with children.

I change a lot of diapers.

Child after child.

Toilet training is not an instant process.

Especially if you're sustained within a hermetically sealed condom.

How many days or weeks of wetting herself in public would they have gone through before she finally got on top of that biological process and owned it as well as harry Kim who almost never has accidents anymore?

She would have left puddles all over Voyager as she repeed herself.

Janeway would have had to eventually resort to smashing her in the nose a rolled up newspaper. Or rubbing the girls nose in her waste as is done with animals who are being house trained.

Oh.

Maybe that's why her suit was air tight.

Water tight.

Pee tight.

She literally couldn't safely wear regular clothes without leaving an extended trail of excrement and piddle in her wake like some lithe sexy snail... The same with the other Borg too probably.

I didn't find Seven of Nine attractive, I don't find catsuits provocative.

I liked what they had her doing in WWII. That was fun. And Jeri was a bloody amusing Ferengi, but on an episode to episode basis she saved the ship every week because every one else couldn't and that's sad. They might as well have stuck the rest of the crew in stasis and let her save the ship from week to week without bothering anyone else. O they did.

However, it's kind of insane that she couldn't get them home to earth inside a couple weeks since she understood everything about transwarp technology and what spareparts they couldn't replicate they came across now and then in debris.

She's a Borg that couldn't build a transwarp engine. What good was she? I would cry if the only reason that she didn't build a transwarp engine for the delta Flyer or she writed her own Borg Sphere was that no one bothered to ask her.

Pomposity personified.

I wonder how far Paris would have gotten with her if he hadn't had that near death experience with B'Elanna? Maybe beforehand the Doctor had to mass inoculate the crew with contraception when he noticed that the next 15 pregnancies after Sam on board the ship all had Paris DNA? I wonder if it would have speed up Seven's emotional development if Paris had stolen her cherry in season 4 since Kim didn't want it? Especially if he moved on before she decided they were finished. Yeah, get the Borg talking about bedroom retribution. Good one Tom.

The lad she picked in Someone to watchover me was all thumbs. It seems that she needed to find someone even more socially defunct than she was because her star must always shine brightest? No one asked her on a date ever? The D'Elannie sisters were double booked 24/7 because they're awesome, but the Borgette almost half as pretty as Megan is given a wide berth why? Maybe she was still such a blank state in the end because no one but Janeway and the Wildman kid talked to her as if she was a person who had feelings? because lets face it, she didn't advertise her "humanity" for quite some time, and even then not so well.

If you're not hypnotized by her huge knockers, these are the thoughts you have.

 

[Red Ranger]

OK, I need brain soap after all your talk of pooping and peeing! -- RR

 

[Guy Gardener]

And I didn't even get to the olfactory issues of all that baggage she was carrying around.

Actually, such a stink might finally explain why Harry ran from her sweet embrace in Revulsion was it, after expressing all that in depth interest in the girl for the immediate ten minutes preceding her come on?

I found the previous theories that he was afraid of powerful threatening and imposing women to be a little patronizing, since what women not in a coma are not more powerful, threatening and imposing than Harry Kim?

JD was talking about that on the Scrubs webisodes.

"HFFA"

Hot From Far Away.

 

[BillJ]

People:

I know there are many detractors to the character of Seven of Nine. However, I always liked the character and do know women who enjoy the character.

IMO, the character of Seven is deeper than just titillation for adolescent, hormone-crazed fanboys. I see Seven as a commentary on the dehumanization of technology, and how dependence on it can make people less than human.

I'm thinking of how, even then, people were becoming buried in their PCs and early cell phones. So her journey to reassert her humanity was a symbol of trying to remain human in the face of the increasing mechanization of society.

Her character also reminds me of that line from TOS ep Conscience of the King, when Karidian rails against Captain Kirk, claiming he was a product of an increasingly mechanized society, even accusing him of being "not very human."

What say you?

Red Ranger

I say you're trying to hard to assign value to a character that had none besides huge knockers. She was usually the one coming up with the technobabble solution of the week once she joined the cast.

 

[Brit]

Well Guy, I wouldn't have said that with those illustrations, but you pretty much summed up the character. Seven had a lot of Borg knowledge of how things worked, but she had never been a child, never had the experience of growing into knowledge just like Guy illustrated. Seven had not learned "the art of being human."

Brit

 

[Jaespol]

People:

I see Seven as a commentary on the dehumanization of technology, and how dependence on it can make people less than human.

I'm thinking of how, even then, people were becoming buried in their PCs and early cell phones. So her journey to reassert her humanity was a symbol of trying to remain human in the face of the increasing mechanization of society.

Looking at the calibre of the Voyager writers, I somehow doubt she was introduced with this in mind. I don't know the phrase to explain it, but you are just applying this grand scheme to her character development in hindsight.

 

[The Badger]

...it'll only hurt the first time. Well, the first few times... You might need to sit on a special pillow for the first month."

Now we know why she regenerated standing up.

Guy Gardner, whilst I can find no flaw in your reasoning (and I must admit that I'm trying not to consider the matter in as much depth as you clearly have), I do think you need to find some other direction for your prodigious intellect. You are beginning to worry me. *

As to the OP, whilst Red Ranger offers some interesting ideas, I'm with Jaespol on this one. I think Red Ranger is reading a bit too much into it.


*I'll admit though that I do fancy 7of9, I do find catsuits provocative, and I am hypnotized by huge knockers, so I don't have thoughts like that. YMMV.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

People:

I know there are many detractors to the character of Seven of Nine. However, I always liked the character and do know women who enjoy the character.

IMO, the character of Seven is deeper than just titillation for adolescent, hormone-crazed fanboys. I see Seven as a commentary on the dehumanization of technology, and how dependence on it can make people less than human.

I'm thinking of how, even then, people were becoming buried in their PCs and early cell phones. So her journey to reassert her humanity was a symbol of trying to remain human in the face of the increasing mechanization of society.

Her character also reminds me of that line from TOS ep Conscience of the King, when Karidian rails against Captain Kirk, claiming he was a product of an increasingly mechanized society, even accusing him of being "not very human."

What say you?

Red Ranger

I say you're trying to hard to assign value to a character that had none besides huge knockers. She was usually the one coming up with the technobabble solution of the week once she joined the cast.

If you actually watch some of the episodes where she is developed then you will see that this isn't true. She may have been hired to sex up the show, but her character became a lot more than that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The hiring was done by the usual lot of suits with simple "ideas" who then passed the buck to the writers who were fortunately not so crass as to think their audience is entirely made up of TV screen licking gibbering masturbating loons.

Either that or the writers were told to use sex while their hands were completely tied by their PG rating. Which is totally "does not compute".

Or the writers didn't know how to bring sexy back?

Guy Gardner, whilst I can find no flaw in your reasoning (and I must admit that I'm trying not to consider the matter in as much depth as you clearly have), I do think you need to find some other direction for your prodigious intellect. You are beginning to worry me. *

You've never read/seen Dune? I'm just describing the functions of the Stillsuit which all the freemen wore.

 

[Gary7]

Guy Gardner, whilst I can find no flaw in your reasoning (and I must admit that I'm trying not to consider the matter in as much depth as you clearly have), I do think you need to find some other direction for your prodigious intellect. You are beginning to worry me. *

You've never read/seen Dune? I'm just describing the functions of the Stillsuit which all the freemen wore.

Guy, you make an excellent point. I really would have expected Seven to be wearing something like a Stillsuit. If she regenerates, that means she doesn't need to consume bulk matter for nutrition. Which means her plumbing would indeed be 'defunct.' Yet, we do see her eat on occasion. They totally ignore the biological function yet again (we've NEVER seen anyone entering or leaving a toilet on ANY Star Trek episode or movie). It would have been a good angle to take at least at some point. Certainly Seven would need "one big diaper" to deal with it, and the Stillsuit would be a good solution.

Ensign Kim: "Captain, there are power system failures all over the ship. Life support is still operational, but all food replicators are off line and we've no running water. The human waste reprocessing centers aren't working either--no toilets."


In any case, here again is another thread of "Seven appreciation, even without the catsuit"... hasn't this been talked to death already?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I recall an episode where she was told that she "now" had to eat food, and she's sitting in the messhall bitching about the process to some shrug who was sitting next to her as "undignified".

I'd have to wonder if some crew might elect to have their toiletry needs surgically redacted? Imagine the extra freetime they'd have to waste on nothing special? Surely it's just a matter of free will? or does this fall under the Eugenics ban?

I have often wondered if not current replicators, then earlier models required people /crew to poop into the single operating unit? If O'Brien has to put his old socks into the replicator at night to allow for a conservation of socks for the finally sock tally in the Enterprises accounts ledger, then the same can be said for food when people are finished with what they are digesting that it all should be used again.

How often have we told our slutty friends that they shouldn't poop where they eat?

An early episode of Enterprise had Tucker answering a questions from a school room of delayteleconferenced yourng children about "recycling" and despite some bashfulness, Trip admitted that Poop is used to make boots among other things.

I think he might have even used the word "poop".

 

[The Badger]

You've never read/seen Dune? I'm just describing the functions of the Stillsuit which all the freemen wore.

Ah, yes, it's been a good few years since I read Dune (must see if I can find my copy somewhere) and I'd forgotten completely about it. Your argument makes a certain kind of sense.

And as Gary7 points out, we do not get any information on the toiletry requirements in Trek (apart, as Guy says, from that ENT episode). To be fair though TV rarely dwells on such subjects, Jack Bauer can go a full day without using the little agents room. It wouldn't really feel right if they had references on Trek. Given the amount of prune juice Worf drank he'd have been away from his post so often he could have been charged with dereliction of duty.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Geordi got lost in translation briefly when Zephram Cochrane claimed he needed to take a leak in First Contact.

I have been wondering if it's not the phrase that was archaic but the activity? That Geordi only remembers that makind once did pee from lessons he half remembered from anthropology class.

Goodness. I wonder if this was a talking point in the Eugenics war? The people who wanted to poop vs the people who didn't want to poop and how they wanted to keep their kids separated?

 

[Red Ranger]

^I'm with The Badger -- Guy's scatological fixation worries me, too!

BillJ, et al., I can see how you'd arrive at the conclusion that I'm reading more into Seven than meets the eye -- my brother used to call her 37DD of Nine. However, I respectfully say that while her original conception was indeed the work of overgrown fanboys, some of the writers managed to have some fascinating and insightful takes on her character.

As for her catsuit being like the Dune stillsuit, I'm so glad they didn't go into that. Now, since she gained knowledge of other species because of being a part of the Borg Collective, wouldn't the waste management practices of various species be part of her knowledge, despite how mundane that sounds? I'd think so.

The only possible practical value of her catsuit could be that it was more efficient in helping her regenerate -- it's closeness to her skin allowed very little energy to escape. I know I'm reaching here, but what the hell.

Red Ranger

 

[Brit]

The only possible practical value of her catsuit could be that it was more efficient in helping her regenerate -- it's closeness to her skin allowed very little energy to escape. I know I'm reaching here, but what the hell.

The suit was supposed to have served some unnamed purpose.

EMH: I've extracted eighty two percent of the Borg hardware. The remaining bio-implants are stable and better than anything I could synthesize at such short notice.

SEVEN: It is acceptable.

EMH: Fashion, of course, is hardly my forte. Nevertheless I've managed to balance functionality and aesthetics in a pleasing enough manner. I also took the liberty of stimulating your hair follicles. A vicarious experience for me, as you might imagine.

I had always assumed that it provided some kind of support in the place of technology removed from her body.

Brit

 

[scottydog]

Seven was the 2nd best character on the show (behind the EMH Doctor). I'm a typical shallow heterosexual male, and yet I found myself drawn to her intelligence and integrity. In fact, in later seasons, she had become such a rich complex character that I stopped paying attention to her womanly curves. Props to Jeri Ryan for accomplishing this!

 

[Red Ranger]

Seven was the 2nd best character on the show (behind the EMH Doctor). I'm a typical shallow heterosexual male, and yet I found myself drawn to her intelligence and integrity. In fact, in later seasons, she had become such a rich complex character that I stopped paying attention to her womanly curves. Props to Jeri Ryan for accomplishing this!

You, sir, are an evolved male! -- RR

 

[Guy Gardener]

I also took the liberty of stimulating your hair follicles. A vicarious experience for me, as you might imagine.

Obvious jokes about the pubic region aside (or bleeching asshair that never should have been planted to grow in the first place.)... I'm curious about her leg hair? Is it inhuman to have no hair grow on her legs but insexy to leave the flesh tracts from her ankles to her reproductry system looking like shrubbery? Why make it grow at all if she's just expected to remove it every few days with blades, creams or somesort of sonic weapon on a minimum setting? Unless no woman deals with that gardening criteria any more, which again is a Eugenics War issue if so many parents did elect to create bald areas on their children prenatally 400 years earlier that the genes for female leg hair became extinct.

Okies, but here the biggy.

Eyelashes.

The advertising on Tv would have me believe that increasing the consistency and density of eyelash follicles can turn a somewhat plane girl into a stunning beauty? I suppose the Doctor could have been able to work out how many eye lashes she should have had, I watch Numbers, do you watch numbers(?), but why wouldn't he try to make her more beautiful than she should be, and how is that fair to the rest of the women on the ship?

I imagine a line outside sickbay extending half the ship comprising of most of the women aboard voyager demanding the same hair care regiment given so wantonly to the enemy Janeway have to much moral certitude to lock in a cage and torture for secrets.

And that's only maintaining the beleif that people are stong willed enough to make their own decisions, that the dominant person, whatsoever gender in any coupling might not send their lover in for an overhaul to whatever degree the doctor is offereing to keep the place pretty?

Imagine some girl told Kim he'd look hot with a Ginger Afro?

I think the real reason why Seven never had a date till half way through season 6 and never had a boyfriend till she had to huddle for warmth during that provisionless camping trip within the episode Natural Law (This is the most logical point in the show that they first hooked up.) is that the woman on Voyager saw the ticking clock (I watch 24, do you watch 24?) that was the most beautiful woman in the known universe and fast tracked all their plans to trap some bugger they had been slow boiling into a committed monogomous relationship before that blonde with her boobies and perfect hair got her shite together and realised how much power she'd acually have onboard this ship "socially" if there were any men left over unspoken for clambering for the opportunity to be her friend.

 

[Gary7]

is that the woman on Voyager

Change to 'women' and the meaning follows more closely with what you're trying to say.