Security/ Tactical Officer

[SonOfMogh]

After watching a few episodes lately I'm coming to the conclusion that having one person be in charge of both security and tactical is not the smartest move.

Firstly, I know the real world explanation is that you can only have so many "main characters" and it's cool that they all have plenty to do.

Now back to Trek reality.... These two jobs often conflict, on a few occasions either the Enterprise or Voyager would be boarded and you would see Worf or Tuvok leading security teams to take on the boarding parties... Whilst the ship was still in battle and the tactical station is presumably manned by some lower ranking and less experienced officer.

Other times Worf would personally be escorting high ranking guests around and conducting investigations, while the threat of heavily armed decloaking ships loomed.

I guess personally I think it might have worked to have a security chief based in an office somewhere else on the ship who is an interesting recurring character and just shows up during investigations or leading troops. That way tactical remains manned by the best qualified officer during critical situations.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, I think it's because security and tactical are often combined operations aboard most starships now in the same way helm and navigation were.

I also think a good security chief would insist that the people under him be as just as competent as he is in order to take over tactical in his absence. But sometimes the unknown is simply the unknown and even a veteran like Worf can look like a total nOOb at times, IMO...

 

[Captan_Picard]

In there reality the same is well. Especually after the Dominion Wars and other issues Star Fleet and the Federation have faced. Which include the Earth Holographic Wars encumpassed by a Borg invasion movement which wiped out a number of SFI officors.

Good officors were lost evacuating buildings on earth which had been taken over by reprogrammed holograms and the SFI loss really hit home because instanty they all became borg.

The Dominion War also cost a number of lives.

There were a number of other instances which include the second Borg incursion where Earth got attacked by a cube (FIRST CONTACT).

Which came in 2371 or 2.

Star Fleet has spread thin and all.

OK...Back to the main issue.

Those people act as backups. sure there not the best, but we cant have the best be everywhere.

Because no matter what, one officor will be better than the other. You only can have them where they are neeeded the most at the moment.

They cannot man there station 24 hours...they need personal time.

I think it is fine as it is.

 

[Kross]

It never made sense to me when Worf or Tuvok personally went to arrest someone. That doesn't really put much confidence in your security teams if they perceive the junior officers as not being competent enough to perform simple security tasks.

Edit: Holographic Wars? What? o_O

 

[Timo]

We could easily argue that this arrangement was specific to two ships in the entire Starfleet only: the E-D (because the ship originally had two separate officers, but Worf took over two jobs after casualties), and the Voyager (same reason, Tuvok took over two jobs). We never saw this sort of duplication of jobs anywhere else. Even the tiny Defiant typically had different people to handle the guns and the internal security.

Now, the Voyager could not have gotten casualty replacements easily. But why did the E-D need to resort to this special arrangement? Or to perpetuate it after the next port call following "Skin of Evil" where the Chief of Security was lost? Perhaps it was merely Picard's whim, or had something to do with the fact that the E-D was supposed to be doing Federation Flagship stuff, looking imposing but not really fighting all that much... A big burly Klingon as the diplomatic landing party's chief bodyguard would send just the right message, while there'd be a reduced need for a competent person at the controls of the starship's main guns.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Timo, Enterprise combined the positions. And Yar was seen performing both duties before she died.

The only show that clearly distinguished the positions was Deep Space Nine and that was because of Odo's non-starfleet position (actually, did Eddison handle tactical on the Defiant ever?). I agree it's logical to separate them. They seem to be combined out of an urge to keep the cast small and to constantly have things for them to do (although they'll often fail at that as well).

 

[Timo]

Enterprise combined the positions

It combined more than those two: Reed seemed to aim the big guns, command the shipboard security and landing parties, and command the armory and torpedo room - essentially he was his own subordinate in those jobs.

That wasn't exactly UFP Starfleet, though, but UESF. And Reed could once again be considered a "casualty replacement" because the ship apparently launched with an incomplete crew for a four-day milk run, and then spent two years out there without a chance to rotate crew.

Quite possibly the ship could have had four different officers for the four different jobs, had it been launched on schedule rather than ahead of it. The presence of the MACO team basically removed Reed from the landing party role for season 3, and it may also have stopped UESF from assigning a dedicated Security Chief alongside Reed...

The only show that clearly distinguished the positions was Deep Space Nine

Well, that and TOS/TAS/TOS movies. No Security redshirt ever fired the ship's guns there, and Sulu didn't lead the Security division.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kross]

That's because the yakle heads that created Enterprise are retards.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I like the security/tactical breakdown of the redone Battlestar Galactica.

 

[Harry Palmer]

I like the security/tactical breakdown of the redone Battlestar Galactica.

Agreed.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Enterprise combined the positions

It combined more than those two: Reed seemed to aim the big guns, command the shipboard security and landing parties, and command the armory and torpedo room - essentially he was his own subordinate in those jobs.

That wasn't exactly UFP Starfleet, though, but UESF. And Reed could once again be considered a "casualty replacement" because the ship apparently launched with an incomplete crew for a four-day milk run, and then spent two years out there without a chance to rotate crew.

Quite possibly the ship could have had four different officers for the four different jobs, had it been launched on schedule rather than ahead of it. The presence of the MACO team basically removed Reed from the landing party role for season 3, and it may also have stopped UESF from assigning a dedicated Security Chief alongside Reed...

That works. I think the very small crew was also a factor in combining the positions. His official title was Armory officer, not tactical or security. The fact that he would be in charge of all guns would make it natural to combine the positions. Still, once you get a ship with more than 83 people, it probably makes more sense to separate them.

The only show that clearly distinguished the positions was Deep Space Nine

Well, that and TOS/TAS/TOS movies. No Security redshirt ever fired the ship's guns there, and Sulu didn't lead the Security division.

Woops, I feel like an idiot for not thinking that. Yeah, TOS definitely avoided combining tactical and security (although I think it was odd to combine helm and security).

 

[SchwEnt]

After watching a few episodes lately I'm coming to the conclusion that having one person be in charge of both security and tactical is not the smartest move.

Firstly, I know the real world explanation is that you can only have so many "main characters" and it's cool that they all have plenty to do.

Now back to Trek reality.... These two jobs often conflict, on a few occasions either the Enterprise or Voyager would be boarded and you would see Worf or Tuvok leading security teams to take on the boarding parties... Whilst the ship was still in battle and the tactical station is presumably manned by some lower ranking and less experienced officer.

Other times Worf would personally be escorting high ranking guests around and conducting investigations, while the threat of heavily armed decloaking ships loomed.

I guess personally I think it might have worked to have a security chief based in an office somewhere else on the ship who is an interesting recurring character and just shows up during investigations or leading troops. That way tactical remains manned by the best qualified officer during critical situations.

Well, you've got it right.
ST frequently lumps "combat" roles all into one position, as if it's all one thing.

But in real life, the guy that operates and fires the ship's weaponry if not the same guy who is in charge of small arms and rifles.

And the guy that's in charge of arming, loading, and maintaining the ship's weaponry (ordnance) is not the same guy in charge of firing it.

And none of those guys is in charge of ship's security, as in squad detachments/patrol duty.

The armory guy (in charge of small arms lockers) is not necessarily the same guy who conducts security detail duty/close combat.

Yeah, these are all very different jobs and functions.
But we always see one guy (esp. post-TOS) in charge of all these different jobs.