Was browsing Youtube and came across some reminders of the "old" Star Trek Discovery What happened to this show? The characters had an edge. They aren't constantly asking how each other are feeling. They're getting on with buisness. This is the Discovery I loved.
As time goes on I do miss that different vibe early Discovery had, where things had a darker, sharper edge to things (and not just the spikey bits on the Klingon ships). Half the fun for me, for any prequel, is seeing how it would line up with the source material. With this I mean more the mythos and the general aesthetic, like we're getting on Strange New Worlds, not how this could possibly align with 60s tv set designs. I do wish they would've stayed in the 23rd century but at this point that's all wishful thinking and speculation.
Just like TBBT changed when all the main male characters got girlfriends, DIS changed when the characters found someone to connect with and share their feelings. Burnham first had Ash Tyler, and now has Book. Stamets lost and then got back Culber, and has Adira as an adopted daughter, and has mellowed out as a result. Saru is interested in T’Rina and abandoned conflict with Burnham. Tilly has no one yet, although she has Adira who sees her as a role model, as well as Spoiler all future cadets to come. Even Vance has his family, and was more of a diplomat than soldier. While Anderson in the first vid did not seem to have anyone that we knew of. And even if he did, the crew came first, as he was a soldier first and diplomat second. If you want the old DIS back, end all of these personal relationships, and give them adversaries to face off and situations to challenge them, imo. Send them to a different galaxy where the planet killers - as seen in “The Doomsday Machine” - are as prolific as the Borg, and Tholians are present. Or meet the rest of the Greek gods that abandoned Apollo. Or have the Excalbian give them the worst the galaxy has to offer across history. Or a new round of polywater intoxication. And yes, I got these ideas rewatching “Ephraim and Dot” again.
No. The Showrunner changed. Every time Star Trek has a new Showrunner, the show changes to reflect their style. It happened on TOS: Roddenberry --> Coon --> Lucas --> Freiberger It happened on TNG: Roddenberry --> Hurley --> Piller --> Taylor It happened on DS9: Piller --> Behr It happened on VOY: Piller --> Taylor --> Braga --> Biller It happened on ENT: Braga --> Coto It's happened on DSC: Harberts/Berg --> Kurtzman --> Paradise It's happened on PIC: Chabon --> Matalas It's cut-and-dried: Michelle Paradise has a different idea for what she wants the show to be than Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg wanted. And Alex Kurtzman was a placeholder between them. Once Paradise took over, he went right back to focusing on The Franchise at large. I'm not going to count Bryan Fuller because they canned him before production of the actual series even started. Do I think fan reactions had nothing do with the changes? No. But there were other factors at play that I think contributed to the change of the series more. If they listened to people here for instance, nothing would ever get made because no one agrees on anything. And listening to people on YouTube Comments Sections is a total waste of time. I miss the Season 1 feel sometimes, but I don't know if the series could run seven seasons like that. Everyone except Burnham would've been killed off by now. If DSC didn't change, then I think I would've seen it as more of a "Do everything you can now while you can, because this might be the last season, so fuck it!" I'm pretty sure I said something similar to this in 2018. "Don't wait! Do it now! Go for it!" It was thrilling and exciting, and a huge "Fuck You!" to Berman Trek... but it was short. So we've exchanged "short & exciting" for "long & steady". I like both for different reasons but the thrill that was Season 1 would've been impossible to keep up.
I feel like the first two seasons were more exciting and I was excited to see what will happen next. Each episode left me wanting more. Even if I like individual episodes from the past 2 seasons, and I have liked a lot of them, the season 3 and 4 arcs haven't really excited me so I don't necessarily look forward to what happens next.
People say this like it is such a bad thing. I am just flummoxed at this point at the sheer insensitivity that comes from this dea that sharing feelings during different settings is bad. That Discovery should move more towards the abrasive, calloused style of Lorca and Stamets than open and accepting. I know I am painting with a broad brush, but honestly I feel like I'm on Vulcan-sharing feelings among Starfleet officers is bad and should be avoided. I agree with @Lord Garth broadly that the showrunners changed and the tone changed. And that's pretty common. But, this theme of "the writers found people to share feelings with and that changed Discovery" is just...strange.
I enjoyed season 1 a lot. It was different. Edgy. Dark. I liked it. I looked forward to every episode because I wanted to know what happens next. Season 2 I then watched just for Pike because Pike has always been my second favorite captain and I've always wanted to see more of him and I was NOT disappointed even though I really didn't care for the plot of season 2. Season 3 I didn't bother with anymore (doesn't mean I can't understand those who enjoy the show, we all like different stuff). So I can definitely agree with those who say season 1 just... had SOMETHING.
Same. Remember the space battle between Discovery, Gagarin and the Klingons? Probably my favorite moment of DSC.
I'm usually the absolute LAST person who cares about space battles but somehow they DID fit in with the tone of the season! I think a large part of why I enjoyed it so much was Lorca. He was so different. I loved the approach (well, at least until they revealed his "secret"). I've never related to a starship captain so much. I would also sleep with a phaser under my pillow, I also suffer from extreme light sensitivity, I would also keep a Tribble in my ready room because the noises Tribbles make help me a lot with my anxiety... it was refreshing to see someone who is a lot like me in charge of a starship and not the usual "do good, be nice" captain. I finally felt... represented? In a way. (Hence why I really disliked the reveal of his "secret".)
Sure would be nice if they brought the character back during Strange New Worlds, the real Lorca I mean. Did they ever confirm if he died or just got trapped in the mirror universe after a ship battle with the Klingons?
DSC S1 is up there with my other two favourite Trek seasons, DS9 S6 and TOS S2. It was such a breath of fresh air from the bland rut that so much of the Berman era had been stuck in. By S3 it had just become mawkish, and while I initially skipped S4 due to it being pulled from Netflix, I find I’m just not motivated to watch it.
I never said it was bad, although I certainly see the merits of the approach taken by Harberts & Berg. I was pointing out how it changed the show. When the show started, they were soldiers focused on a mission; any drama they had was family drama or other interpersonal conflicts, and grieving for the war losses were set aside for later. Now, there is as much focus on discussing their emotions with each other as the assignment given as the rebuild the Federation. It’s a crew traumatized by jumping 900 years into the future meeting a galaxy that’s been traumatized by the Burn for over a century and traditional allegiances have been fragmented, and further traumatised by the DMA event. In place of interpersonal conflicts, they talk about what is bothering them. Its is no longer a conflict-based show because of it. The Discovery crew aren’t used as soldiers and placed on the front lines liberating former Federation worlds from the Emerald Chain on the basis of their war experience with the Klingons. And there is no compulsion for the Discovery crew to unwind with a party and try to enjoy themselves, and to behave like morale officers and invite various individuals to that party to help them get over problems faced in the 32nd century. The only features retained from the first couple of seasons are threat of the season, which may have exhausted some fans with how frequent they occur, and the post-Burn setting is still as dark as the S1 setting. Future seasons could make superficial changes like giving Burnham her S1-2 haircut back, or a new Airiam-like character joining the crew, or a fleet of ships engaged in a series of space battles with the Emerald Chain over a number of episodes. The core thing that makes DIS different under the current showrunner over the showrunners of S1 is how the crew is characterised. Lorca was different from other captains featured in the franchise, and gelled with the premise being centered on someone not the captain (i.e. Burnham) quite well. Not that Pike was bad (he was great), or that it was wrong to explore an alien captain a ship of a mostly human crew with Saru, but Lorca was the ideal captain for this show. That he had Cornwall and the rest of the Starfleet admirals to reflect the context of his command helped a lot as well Stamets was unlikable for most of DIS and seems to have only settled down and be happy in S4. Yes, it shows growth, but maybe that’s not what Stamets personality should be. Maybe he’s supposed to be grumpy and snarky, and regularly confrontational with Burnham, Culber, and the rest of the crew. Maybe unlike Trip, who was unlikable in S2 of ENT and then grew to be very likable over S3 & S4, Stamets is supposed to be set in his grumpy, snarky ways that makes him unlikable to the audience. And maybe that’s supposed to contrast with Saru only having conflict with Burnham. Or Detmer, who’s conflicts with Burnham have been resolved and forgiven. Or Nhan, who’s friends with Burnham but also isn’t going to let emotions get in the way of her duties, and her commitment to her duties which will eventually create future conflict.
In the past, the spin-offs that got the most criticism would have to be off the air before that show was used by fans to blugeon whatever new Trek was currently running. This is also the first time I’v seen the “technique“ used to bash the later seasons of the same show that was heavily criticized. This has to be some kind of Star Trek record.
To be blunt, that grates against the audience. It's fatiguing to feel someone never meshes with the crew, and can't get along with others. In short, when people accuse Discovery of being "unprofessional" a person who refuses to get along with coworkers is the height of unprofessionalism and something good leaders would do well to find ways to work out.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit recently with the latest season just ending and for me, it's not that the characters are sharing feelings, it's that the story tends to grind to a halt whenever the characters have these more emotional moments. IMHO, watching the Discovery crew get ready to embark on a time sensitive mission that could make or break the entire galaxy, only to stop and go to their quarters to have some discussion about their love interest or how sad they are just feels clunky. It's like watching a cop show in which there is an armed robbery in progress, and the officers decide THAT must be a good moment to pull the patrol car over and discuss their relationship. In a very real sense, Discovery is more realistic than other series where a character almost dies horrifically in one episode and is perfectly fine and happy in the next; however for me, watching someone talking through past trauma in a counseling setting isn't why I watch action/adventure space operas especially when the characters do so in the middle of a crisis. Ultimately, in an ideal world, Discovery wouldn't need to lose the emotional moments, just fit them into the stories in a more organic way.
I never said it didn’t grate. I’m saying that’s the point of his character and may make the character more memorable. And may make other characters more memorable whenever they stand up to Stamets. It helped with Detmer and helps with Reno. It may help the other middle decks characters and other supporting characters.