Season 7 is starting out rough

[tim0122]

Have reached TNG season seven and DS9 season two in my great Star Trek watch/rewatch. So far, TNG has served up Descent part 2, Liaisons, Interface, and Gambit part 1. A pretty lackluster set of episodes so far. I DO like Gambit part 1 and Descent is VERY slightly recommendable. But TNG's final season is starting off very eh.

I know there are good to great episodes coming, but I find it interesting that while TNG is struggling to keep my interest, DS9 is hitting solid with its Circle three-parter.

I don't know my point in making this thread except for sharing my pain with fellow Trekkies and expressing my hope that this season does a serious rebound (supernatural masks and romance ghosts notwithstanding).

 

[Turtletrekker]

Season 7 has a few gems but is pretty rough in general. Everybody was running out of steam in the rush to reach the finish line.

 

[donners22]

I find it the worst other than the first two. They clearly ran out of ideas, and it didn’t help that focus was shifting to Generations. It ends on a very high note, at least.

 

[somebuddyX]

I love Season 7.
Gambit with Riker and Picard off the ship, Data and Worf in command, and the spider ship
Phantasms with Data's dreams.
Inheritance

Spoiler

with Data's mother

Parallels and The Pegasus is an awesome duo, great high concept and then a great drama
Lower Decks is superb
Thine Own Self A story is great and B story is solid
Eye of the Beholder works really well.
Preemptive Strike really grows the Maquis story and is great to see Ro
And come on ALL GOOD THINGS... better than all four TNG films combined.

Even the misses are still pretty good television. Yes it leans on family members waaaaaay too much, yes it goes a bit weird with

Spoiler

candle ghosts, spider guys, masaka, time travelling kids, holodeck lifeforms, casual genocide, warp speed limits

, but at least they went for it.

 

[Qonundrum]

Have reached TNG season seven and DS9 season two in my great Star Trek watch/rewatch. So far, TNG has served up Descent part 2, Liaisons, Interface, and Gambit part 1. A pretty lackluster set of episodes so far. I DO like Gambit part 1 and Descent is VERY slightly recommendable. But TNG's final season is starting off very eh.

As Yogurt might say, "Disagree, I do not!"

"Liaisons" is mostly fun, if in the right mindset. It is otherwise something of a retread, multiplied by three. Still more watchable than "The Savage Curtain", from which it may have been partially inspired.

"Interface" is low-key but is oddly one of the better Geordi-focused stories since he's not written in any skeezy way ("Aquiel" was arguably the worst).

"Gambit pt 1" felt like a Star Wars TV show, complete with hokey cliffhanger. To say nothing of the music...

"Descent pt 2" is just uninspired, by-the-numbers tripe. Pt 1 at least had a mostly interesting setup (despite Lore somehow needing to be involved, Hugh or any other Borg could have stepped in. Never mind viewer comments circa 1993!) But pt2? It's just numbing. At least season 7 improved and had moments of glory, but the mojo and verve were definitely moved to DS9.

I know there are good to great episodes coming, but I find it interesting that while TNG is struggling to keep my interest, DS9 is hitting solid with its Circle three-parter.

I need to rewatch DS9/s2 one day. It had a couple of great episodes that I still remember and the show was making use of its situation rather well...

I don't know my point in making this thread except for sharing my pain with fellow Trekkies and expressing my hope that this season does a serious rebound (supernatural masks and romance ghosts notwithstanding).

Oddly enough, I love "Masks" and YouTube channels like Target Audience love "Sub Rosa" so that exemplifies one aspect of IDIC, if nothing else.

That aside, season 7 does rebound and has a handful of good when not great entries. How it managed to start off so lackluster...

 

[Tosk]

Descent, part 2 - Not fabulous, but solid enough. Some good bits help elevate it.
Liaisons - Meh.
Interface - Not great, but just okay.
Gambit - Fun, and totally worth it even if just for the Data and Worf scene in the ready room.
Phantasms - It's okay, I can take it or leave it.
Dark Page - I like it.
Attached - I like it.
Force of Nature - I do not like it. At all.
Inheritance - I don't mind it. Not bad.
Parallels - I like it.
The Pegasus - I like it.
Homeward - I don't care for it much.
Sub Rosa - The meme-tastic nature of ghostfucking aside, it's garbage.
Lower Decks - I like it.
Thine Own Self - I like it.
Masks - No thank you.
Eye of the Beholder - No thank you again.
Genesis - Fun, but absolutely goofy as all hell.
Journey's End - I like it generally, despite the Wesley-ness.
Firstborn - I like it.
Bloodlines - I do not like it.
Emergence - Nope.
Preemptive Strike - I like it.
All Good Things - I like it.

 

[Ceridwen]

Season 7 has a few gems but is pretty rough in general. Everybody was running out of steam in the rush to reach the finish line.

I don't think it's just a "running out of steam" situation. I'm sure it's a factor, but I feel like breaking up the writers room to make a spin-off is probably a big part of it too.

 

[tim0122]

I don't think it's just a "running out of steam" situation. I'm sure it's a factor, but I feel like breaking up the writers room to make a spin-off is probably a big part of it too.

Not wanting to try new things and change the status quo is another. There was a certain status quo to DS9, but their characters still grew, new characters and relationships were introduced, and new types of stories (long and short) were tried. Unfortunately, once TNG found itself in season three, it was unable or unwilling to diverge from it much.

 

[Ragitsu]

There is nothing wrong with finding (and sticking with) a groove that works. Me? I prefer "episodic with some continuity" rather than "purely serial"; a certain series consistently leaves me fatigued in its later seasons.

 

[AntonyF]

I posted this a couple of years back, I'll requote to save retyping... but yeah they were all running on fumes by that point.

I've watched TNG many many times over the years since 1987... and now older, wiser, more cynical I view everything a bit differently.

I don't think season seven has ever been viewed with critical acclaim. But this is the first time I'm watching it and finding it a bit... crap.

It seems to have become very insular. Michael Piller pivoted TNG to having the characters at the core of the story. But that seems to have become mutated into almost being entirely about the characters and not much else going on.

Most episodes feel like they have no sense of opinion. What are you trying to say? Well not much it seems.

I'm also acutely aware of the budget restraints too. It's become a game seeing how they can re-use the same few sets. And if they have three extras well that's a big spend day for TNG. This is the first time since I bought the VHS tapes back in the 1990s that I'm rewatching DS9 and TNG in line with original air dates. And it's really apparent to me that's where they writers were enjoying themselves. That they can begin to tell the stories they were trying to on TNG but were constrained by its format.

And the budget alone, the promenade is FULL of people - many in makeup. The costs must have been so much more, but it makes the place feel ALIVE and not just the same few sets on rotation.

I'm curious to how other people find season 7. And if your views have changed over time.

Oh and I would like to add I hope it's clear I'm not trashing season 7, it's still better than some so-called Star Treks can manage. But I just find it not as good as it was.

I think I found the first half harder... but then it you get into Lower Decks, Thine Own Self, Masks, Eye of the Beholder and Genesis and I enjoyed them more. I am a fan of Masks, I admit it.

 

[Warp Core Breach]

I posted this a couple of years back, I'll requote to save retyping... but yeah they were all running on fumes by that point.



I think I found the first half harder... but then it you get into Lower Decks, Thine Own Self, Masks, Eye of the Beholder and Genesis and I enjoyed them more. I am a fan of Masks, I admit it.

Saw "Masks" the other day on a local channel for the first time in years. I remember hating it back then, but it's kind of a tour de force for Spiner if nothing else. I find it pretty entertaining now.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

five seasons seems to be about the limit of creativity for TV shows, with exceptions that prove the rule someone here will provide no doubt. How many variations on the same setting or about the same 4-9 people can you do before getting stale?

Chasing the cash cow instead of ending with dignity merely cheapens your product. Killing Old Yeller is the way.

 

[Ragitsu]

five seasons seems to be about the limit of creativity for TV shows

Stargate SG-1 proves your point; while I didn't despise its sixth Season, it was apparent that the magic was fading.

 

[tim0122]

five seasons seems to be about the limit of creativity for TV shows, with exceptions that prove the rule someone here will provide no doubt. How many variations on the same setting or about the same 4-9 people can you do before getting stale?

Chasing the cash cow instead of ending with dignity merely cheapens your product. Killing Old Yeller is the way.

So far, TNG season five IS my favorite of the show.

 

[AntonyF]

So far, TNG season five IS my favorite of the show.

It's widely considered to be the best, in terms of hitting their stride.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I prefer season 3 myself, but would probably place 5 as a close second.

 

[tim0122]

It's widely considered to be the best, in terms of hitting their stride.

I wonder if they would've maintained that quality or stayed closer to it had resources not been divided with the creation of DS9, because for me, there's such a notable quality decrease in the very next season.

 

[tim0122]

I prefer season 3 myself, but would probably place 5 as a close second.

Seasons three, four, and five have definitely been the best so far.

 

[Qonundrum]

I'm more in the camp of "season 3 is the best" followed by 4 (the next best pinnacle) then "Season 2 set the stage for 3 and 4 to polish up". In 1991, I noticed season 5's format change, and while there was still a stride, episode content quality seemed inconsistent and season 6 got even blander and more mixed in idea quality... but season 5 did get the highest ratings at the time and, regardless of anything else, season 5 has a number of strong entries - especially if you ignore the music where it alone could knock down an otherwise strong script. But TNG has many fans who dislike the season 1-4 music style and prefer 5-7's. If nothing else, if TNG didn't prove IDIC then nothing would.

 

[AntonyF]

I wonder if they would've maintained that quality or stayed closer to it had resources not been divided with the creation of DS9, because for me, there's such a notable quality decrease in the very next season.

We'll never know... but I think it's a little from column A and a little from Column B.

Yes focus was going onto DS9. But also they were just getting tired as writers, as actors... it's a brutal 26 episodes per season too. I think it'd be hard to maintain that quality.

There could be an argument that soe of the TNG good stuff in season 5/6 was precisely because attention was diverted. The more I read up on the writers, and listen to the commentaries recently...t he more it feels like they were constantly trying to push the envelope with TNG. I feel they found little cracks and exploited them.

Aside from the obvious reason of Brannon Braga not being on staff at that point, I can't see Cause and Effect taking place in season three, to use one example. And anything with the remotest bit of friction. Ethics for example.