Say No to PC Trek

[fudgefase]

Let's hope that this film actually let's trek fly - with as little attention to Political correctness as possible. I want a proper film, not something reedy and thin because we can't offend anyone. Let's a have a proper villan that couldn't possibly be confused with any racial type or religious belief and let's just knock the crap out of them!!!

 

[cardinal biggles]

Which villains in the past films have been associated with any racial types or religious beliefs?

 

[Professor Zoom]

I'm always amused when people use the idea that Political Correctness as the reason why Trek has been crap for a long time.

Really, does anyone use the phrase Political Correctness anymore? Except those that are busy railing against it?

I'm having flashes of 1997...

It's not political correctness that has stifled Trek...it's lack of creativity and good writing, coupled with bad actors.

 

[Dradin]

Professor Zoom said:
I'm always amused when people use the idea that Political Correctness as the reason why Trek has been crap for a long time.

Really, does anyone use the phrase Political Correctness anymore? Except those that are busy railing against it?

I'm having flashes of 1997...

It's not political correctness that has stifled Trek...it's lack of creativity and good writing, coupled with bad actors.

Did anyone ever use the term Political Correctness, except for thos rallying against it?

I don't see where NEM, for example, has been ruined by being overly PC.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
Well, PC (or a lack there of it) certainly didn't help the film.

It was in dire need of more Picard and Crusher.


But I digress...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

PCness hasn't been much of a factor in Trek since TNG went off the air. Even then, the PC factor came and went.

 

[digifan]

^^ OTC we know politics do play a major role in Trek movies. CIP - the upheavel of the Dominion/UFP conflict throughout Inssurection, Shinzon's nightmarish ordeal in Nemesis, the attack of the Borg sphere on Cochrane's Montanna missile complex, the dramatic speech by Chang on the future of the Klingons. These movie elements reflected real world events of the time. The most oblivious one being the conflict between the Klingons and UFP as a reflection of the Soviet Union and the United States. Rather or not they are politically correct is entirely a different matter altogether.

No matter what we need to remember Star Trek is science fiction at its best. When done correctly it can have as much major impact on society as politics had on history.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Real world politics as an inspiration is no problem. The problem is when Trek is scared to do certain plotlines because it will offend real-life groups, who have no right to be offended.

For instance, DS9 would have been better if the writers had had the guts to really present the Federation as atheistic and involved in a holy war with the Dominion.

I don't mean this should have been simplistic. They could have used the Bajorans as the good face of religion and the Dominion as the evil face of religion and really done something interesting with that.

For instance, Sisko really starting to believe the Bajoran faith and embrace his role in it would have been more interesting if Starfleet had been more atheistic and uncomfortable with one of their most vital leaders in the war effort having divided loyalties (to beings who from the Federation point of view were simply wormhole aliens, and allies of the Dominion for all anyone knew).

But rest assured there would have been those with the knee-jerk reaction that "Trek is insulting my religion" even though I doubt there was ever any genuine worshippers of the Founders in the audience. That's what's meant by PC-ness run amuk.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Dradin said:

Professor Zoom said:
I'm always amused when people use the idea that Political Correctness as the reason why Trek has been crap for a long time.

Really, does anyone use the phrase Political Correctness anymore? Except those that are busy railing against it?

I'm having flashes of 1997...

It's not political correctness that has stifled Trek...it's lack of creativity and good writing, coupled with bad actors.

Did anyone ever use the term Political Correctness, except for thos rallying against it?

I don't see where NEM, for example, has been ruined by being overly PC.

Exactly. It's bullshit.

Say No to a "Star Trek" movie that pretends that it's 1966 and that nothing better, fresher, more imaginative and more human has been done with sf outside of Trek in the last forty years. Just throw out all the shit that people expect, and at least let something surprising happen to someone at some point in this movie. That has nothing to do with politics, space battles or whether there's a Big Bad or not.

 

[PowderedToastMan]

fudgefase said:
Let's hope that this film actually let's trek fly - with as little attention to Political correctness as possible. I want a proper film, not something reedy and thin because we can't offend anyone. Let's a have a proper villan that couldn't possibly be confused with any racial type or religious belief and let's just knock the crap out of them!!!

you are so right...you have found the key! Star Trek needs the new Kirk beating up on obvious racial stereotypes! That is guaranteed box office gold. Why dont you work in Hollywood man you are a friggin genius. Then again Hollywoood is controlled by the ...wel you know...but maybe Kirk can beat up on them too.

 

[Balthier the Great]

Yeah, powdered toast man. It worked great for Imus!

 

[Lumen]

I don't have a problem with Trek on my personal computer.

 

[cardinal biggles]

PowderedToastMan said:
Then again Hollywoood is controlled by the ...wel you know...but maybe Kirk can beat up on them too.

[sarcasm] And since Shatner's one of them, it'll be okay. Y'know, like when black people use the N-word. [/sarcasm]

 

[cardinal biggles]

digifan said:
^^ OTC we know politics do play a major role in Trek movies. CIP - the upheavel of the Dominion/UFP conflict throughout Inssurection, Shinzon's nightmarish ordeal in Nemesis, the attack of the Borg sphere on Cochrane's Montanna missile complex, the dramatic speech by Chang on the future of the Klingons. These movie elements reflected real world events of the time. The most oblivious one being the conflict between the Klingons and UFP as a reflection of the Soviet Union and the United States. Rather or not they are politically correct is entirely a different matter altogether.

No matter what we need to remember Star Trek is science fiction at its best. When done correctly it can have as much major impact on society as politics had on history.

Dude, "political correctness" has nothing to do with whether political situations are portrayed accurately.

From the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on political correctness:

Political correctness (PC) is a term that describes language, ideas, policies, or behavior intended to provide a minimum of offense to racial, cultural, or other identity groups. Political correctness in a critical usage also suggests adherence to political or cultural orthodoxy of any sort. Conversely, the term politically incorrect is used to refer to language or ideas that may cause offense to some identity groups, or, in a broader sense, that are unconstrained by orthodoxy.

You really don't ever read this stuff before replying, do you?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Temis the Vorta said:PCness hasn't been much of a factor in Trek since TNG went off the air. Even then, the PC factor came and went.

Oh, Good Lord... "Voyager" was the most trite piece of PC crap to cross the airwaves... uh... that is, until they made it into "PC with T&A" later on...

 

[DarKush]

cardinal biggles said:
Which villains in the past films have been associated with any racial types or religious beliefs?

The Romulans were inspired by China, and the Klingons were inspired by the USSR. Not religious beliefs, but perhaps political/cultural beliefs factored in their creation. Also, the Chinese sounding name Shinzon was used as an homage to the Romulans 'Chinese' roots. ST6 was the end of the Cold War, just like TNG's "Unification" was the German reunification done up Trek style.

In the TV shows, the Kazon were inspired by the Crips and Blood gangs in the late 80s/90s, the Suliban were inspired by the Taliban. The Cardassians were often likened to the Nazis. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think I read somewhere that the Catholic faith served as some inspiration for the Bajoran faith.

So it is possible that the movies creators could look to real world examples to base their villians on. It's not something that isn't done by thousands of writers, artists, directors, etc. already. And it's also been done on Trek in the past. In fact, it should be expected. Social commentary has always been a part of Trek.

 

[Lumen]

Cary L. Brown said:

Temis the Vorta said:PCness hasn't been much of a factor in Trek since TNG went off the air. Even then, the PC factor came and went.

Oh, Good Lord... "Voyager" was the most trite piece of PC crap to cross the airwaves... uh... that is, until they made it into "PC with T&A" later on...

That's the result of creative timidity and financial desperation. They were afraid or unable to do anything truly unique but the ratings needed help. It's sad.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

DarKush said:

cardinal biggles said:
Which villains in the past films have been associated with any racial types or religious beliefs?

The Romulans were inspired by China, and the Klingons were inspired by the USSR. Not religious beliefs, but perhaps political/cultural beliefs factored in their creation. Also, the Chinese sounding name Shinzon was used as an homage to the Romulans 'Chinese' roots. ST6 was the end of the Cold War, just like TNG's "Unification" was the German reunification done up Trek style.

In the TV shows, the Kazon were inspired by the Crips and Blood gangs in the late 80s/90s, the Suliban were inspired by the Taliban. The Cardassians were often likened to the Nazis. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think I read somewhere that the Catholic faith served as some inspiration for the Bajoran faith.

So it is possible that the movies creators could look to real world examples to base their villians on. It's not something that isn't done by thousands of writers, artists, directors, etc. already. And it's also been done on Trek in the past. In fact, it should be expected. Social commentary has always been a part of Trek.

Ummm... the Romulans were inspired by the Romans... far more than the Chinese. Obviously due to the immense popularity of Gladiator movies at that time...

They became transformed into a China analogy only with TNG. I prefer the TOS Romulans to the TNG Romulans... though, after all, we only have two meaningful TOS-era examples of Romulan culture.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

DarKush said:
The Romulans were inspired by China...

Everybody repeats this because Roddenberry eventually claimed it. Problem is that Roddenberry didn't invent the Romulans and the people who were involved with doing so - the writer, Paul Schneider, and the producer who worked with him - John D.F. Black, who has written about the episode's creation - have indicated nothing of the kind.

"Balance Of Terror" is essentially a retelling of "The Enemy Below" with Mark Lenard in the Kurt Jurgens role. The Romulan Bird-of-Prey is a German U-boat; all of the characters aboard it have counterparts in the aforementioned film: the world-weary commander who respects his adversary and wishes to protect his crew, the officer he confides in who has served with him throughout his career, the gung-ho True Believer whom the Captain holds in contempt.

Schneider merely replaced the Nazi details with terminology lifted from the ancient Roman Empire, and the Romulans were born. China didn't enter into it anywhere.

 

[ancient]

'We can't be an entirely good and advanced culture until we all learn to pretend we like eachother.'

Forget the exact quote, so that was paraphrased.

I think what crippled later Trek stories was a certain inability to do any stories that were controversial, and then actually carry through with them. We did get a few luke-warm attempts though. But I think it was only one of many big factors that caused the writing quality to plummet.