Santa's naughty and nice lists

[trampledamage]

So, the whole concept of Father Christmas keeping a list of which children are naughty and which children are nice... it bothers me. Probably more than it should, I guess, but I won't even let my kids comment on hoping to be on the nice list because I don't think it sends a good message about Christmas (the non-religious present-giving side of the holiday).

I give my kids presents at Christmas because I love them, not because they've been good. I would never take their presents away because they misbehaved. I never make empty threats, so if I'm not prepared to follow through on something, it doesn't happen.

I know I'm over-thinking it, but the whole idea of holding a child's presents hostage to ensure good behaviour just seems mean.

But then I don't hold with the whole "writing a letter to Santa and he will magically send you all of it" thing either because that creates a massive sense of entitlement.

I like Father Christmas, nice bloke, but some of this extra stuff just baffles me - it seems so counter-productive to good parenting.


How do all of you (either as parents or when you were kids with your parents) handle the naughty and nice list concept?

Does anyone actually follow through with the threat of no presents if the kid is naughty?

And do your kids/did you as a child expect Father Christmas to bring you everything you asked for?

 

[Snaploud]

It's based on the idea that kids are like puppies and can't interpret complex morality. The idea is that they have to constantly be confronted with "Good leads to reward; bad leads to punishment" or they'll turn into criminals.

 

[auntiehill]

I give my kids presents at Christmas because I love them, not because they've been good. I would never take their presents away because they misbehaved.

I used to feel that way, too. Until one year, a co-worker kept coming in and telling horror stories about her daughter (about 10 ish). She was turning into a real brat during the holidays. That Christmas break, she caught the daughter snooping around the house, and she had found the presents and was about to open them. So the mom put them under the tree. The kid demanded her presents NOW. Mom said, "No, you'll have to wait until Christmas, like always."

Well, she stepped out to pick up visiting relatives, and came home to find the kid had unwrapped all her gifts and was playing with them. She gave her Mom a response like, "I wanted them, so I took them. Deal with it." It was still a day or two before Christmas.

She rounded up all her presents, put them and the kid in the car, took her down to the homeless shelter and made her give them out to the kids there.

She came back to work upset, and wanted to know if she'd done the right thing. We all said that she had. I thought that was the PERFECT thing to do. It taught the kid a lesson not only about behaving but about gratitude. Apparently, it worked, because the kid never acted like that again.

Yes, I think the naughty/nice thing is a bit exaggerated but frankly, if the behavior is THAT bad, then yes, take the presents away.

 

[Miss Chicken]

^^^ I think it was the right thing to do. If my child had acted like that I would have given the presents away too though it would have spoiled Christmas for me.

I once did something similar on a much smaller scale. I used to buy my sons one thing, and one thing only, when we were out shopping. One day my youngest son saw a book he wanted and asked for it so I bought it. Later he saw a car that he wanted and asked for that too. I said "No, I have already bought you a book". He started to whine and carry on saying he didn't want the book, he wanted the car. I asked him if he was certain he didn't want the book. He said he didn't. So I threw the book into a nearby rubbish bin abd said 'Now you get nothing". My son learnt never to repeat such behavior again.

 

[trampledamage]

It's based on the idea that kids are like puppies and can't interpret complex morality. The idea is that they have to constantly be confronted with "Good leads to reward; bad leads to punishment" or they'll turn into criminals.

We're in big trouble then, since every Santa story seems to involve one kid on the naughty list mending their ways and then getting on the nice list and getting presents. So you start at A - naughty list and end at Z - presents. Who pays attention to the middle...

I give my kids presents at Christmas because I love them, not because they've been good. I would never take their presents away because they misbehaved.

I used to feel that way, too. Until one year, a co-worker kept coming in and telling horror stories about her daughter (about 10 ish). She was turning into a real brat during the holidays. That Christmas break, she caught the daughter snooping around the house, and she had found the presents and was about to open them. So the mom put them under the tree. The kid demanded her presents NOW. Mom said, "No, you'll have to wait until Christmas, like always."

Well, she stepped out to pick up visiting relatives, and came home to find the kid had unwrapped all her gifts and was playing with them. She gave her Mom a response like, "I wanted them, so I took them. Deal with it." It was still a day or two before Christmas.

Well if my kids acted like that they'd be getting the presents taken away too! I think it's gone beyond "Santa will put you on the naughty list" at that stage



The BBS is wonderful, there's always someone with a story of really horrendous children - makes me look at mine in a much nicer light

 

[Kestra]

I don't really see the problem. Gifts at Christmas (or any other holiday) weren't something I took for granted. They were gifts, afterall! I don't think I would actually want to take them away from children but I think the nice and naughty list is fine. It tells you you're not entitled to gifts at Christmas.

 

[Jadzia]

So, the whole concept of Father Christmas keeping a list of which children are naughty and which children are nice... it bothers me.

How do all of you (either as parents or when you were kids with your parents) handle the naughty and nice list concept?

As a child, the story made me feel as if I was being judged by an all-knowing higher being. And since what was at stake was play things, this was comparable to putting the fear of god into me.

Ultimately, I interpreted it as a choice. That if I wanted presents, then it would have a cost attached to it. The cost being obedient behaviour towards my parents in the run up to christmas.

 

[Subcommander R.]

I think it makes holiday shopping easier, just buy a lot of coal and stick it in the stocking with a list of things they did wrong.

MUAHAHAHA!

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I think it makes holiday shopping easier, just buy a lot of coal and stick it in the stocking with a list of things they did wrong.

MUAHAHAHA!

As a child, I was taught to be reasonable about what I asked for, so I did end up getting pretty much everything. I don't remember thinking much (if at all) about whether Santa was watching what I did.

I don't have children of my own, so I can't respond from that perspective.

 

[Holdfast]

Once I understood that presents came from my parents (which I did while still young, given that my parents never bothered to hide it overmuch, so probably around 5-6), we used to enter into a discussion quite early in the year as to that years' present-budget, to be subsequently divided as I saw fit between my birthday at the end of summer, and Christmas (I usually preferred to back-load it 2:1 towards Christmas, though in hindsight, this may not have been the shrewdest way to split it). The total would be dependent on what I got the previous year, though I learnt the benefits of indexation and other cost-of-living adjustments very, very quickly!

Once the total was agreed upon, I could start determing what presents I wanted and then put the contract out to tender (also known as telling mum which shops to call to see if it was available and at what price... ).

Fuck naughty or nice, and right or wrong. My parents taught me that how to negotiate, be cost-efficient, and close a deal... all while having fun and without my realising the important skills I was learning. That's good parenting!

 

[Spot's Meow]

I remember not taking the "Santa's watching" thing very seriously since it didn't seem physically possible. I was a pretty well-behaved child, not because I wanted presents, but because I had an innate sense of decency and was often afraid of embarassment in front of others. However I didn't expect everything on my list. Santa would only get me one "big" gift each year and then there were a few small ones that would be from my parents. Sometimes the big thing on my list would be what I got from Santa, and sometimes it was something I hadn't asked for but that my parents knew I would still enjoy. In fact usually I didn't expect to get the big gift I asked for because I knew it was too expensive, but I put it down anyway out of hopeful thinking. My two most memorable gifts were things that I had listed but really didn't expect to get, and I was shocked on Christmas morning to see them under the tree!! They were a dollhouse when I was 10 and a computer when I was 16. I later learned that I had only gotten these two presents because they were the display models on sale for a steep discount, which actually made me appreciate them even more since I was proud of my parents for getting such a good deal.

Also, I usually had pretty large lists that I compiled for months before Christmas, so I of course didn't expect to get everything, just a couple and some other little surprises I hadn't known I wanted.

This also reminds me of Santa Claus is Coming to Town. There's a part where they show him making his list, and he starts naming kids under the nice column and then says, "oh, I guess they're all pretty nice" and smiles. I liked something about that scene.

 

[Mary Ann]

I give my kids presents at Christmas because I love them, not because they've been good. I would never take their presents away because they misbehaved.

I used to feel that way, too. Until one year, a co-worker kept coming in and telling horror stories about her daughter (about 10 ish). She was turning into a real brat during the holidays. That Christmas break, she caught the daughter snooping around the house, and she had found the presents and was about to open them. So the mom put them under the tree. The kid demanded her presents NOW. Mom said, "No, you'll have to wait until Christmas, like always."

Well, she stepped out to pick up visiting relatives, and came home to find the kid had unwrapped all her gifts and was playing with them. She gave her Mom a response like, "I wanted them, so I took them. Deal with it." It was still a day or two before Christmas.

She rounded up all her presents, put them and the kid in the car, took her down to the homeless shelter and made her give them out to the kids there.

She came back to work upset, and wanted to know if she'd done the right thing. We all said that she had. I thought that was the PERFECT thing to do. It taught the kid a lesson not only about behaving but about gratitude. Apparently, it worked, because the kid never acted like that again.

Yes, I think the naughty/nice thing is a bit exaggerated but frankly, if the behavior is THAT bad, then yes, take the presents away.

Your coworker is my hero.

Years ago a coworker of mine, who was born in the 1930s, told me that when she was young one of her sisters was a real terror, and her parents kept threatening this child with Father Christmas putting coal in her stocking if she didn't behave. This child's behaviour didn't improve, and on Christmas morning, her stocking was full of coal. She got her presents a day or two later after displaying impeccable behaviour, and all the children in that family were very, very good in the run-up to next year's Christmas.

 

[captcalhoun]

my parents didn't piss about with 'santa's naughty list', they just flat out told me when i was acting up to behave or i got nothing, so i behaved.

as for getting what i asked for, a lot of the time when i was a kid, i'd just ask for general stuff like Transformers or GI Joe. i don't think i was too specific. i may have been, though.

by the time i was 10, i was actively going to shops with my parents and asking specifically for stuff which i had and was then wrapped.

since i got my current job, at 19, i don't actually get given the money, as my parents and sisters all have the same amount of money from me as they give me, i just spend the total amount on whatever books or DVDs or what have you i want, and that's my christmas presents. then i give one or other of my parents money to spend on their present(s) and the other parent spends an equal amount for their present(s) instead of giving me the cash. same with my sisters.

birthdays, i get the cash and then spend it afterwards...

 

[Sector 7]

I always told my children, "the presents come from the people who love you." That always seemed to suffice. As they got older they learned to drop hints, because begging for this or that at the store did not work on me.

Little Miss Sector 7 was much more upset about learning "liking Barney is only for babies" on her first day of first grade than Santa being real or not. We always taught our children the true meaning of Christmas (the birth of our Savior, Jesus) and guided them away from the commercialism as much as possible.

 

[trampledamage]

I don't really see the problem. Gifts at Christmas (or any other holiday) weren't something I took for granted. They were gifts, afterall! I don't think I would actually want to take them away from children but I think the nice and naughty list is fine. It tells you you're not entitled to gifts at Christmas.

But surely you knew you'd get presents at Christmas? (Assuming your family followed that tradition) I understand what you mean about them being gifts and there for up to the giver what they give and to whom, but at Christmas you can't actually have been surprised every year by presents from your family.

 

[Lookingglassman]

Santa is a socialist who believes in controlling people's lives and taking over Christmas.

 

[DeafPoet]

When I asked my parents how Santa could possibly know whether I was being good or not, they came up with a more plausible explanation: they told Santa whether I was being naughty or nice.

It kind of backfired. My behavior got worse. But what did they expect? It's bound to be traumatizing when you find out your mom's a fucking stool pigeon.

 

[Subcommander R.]

Santa is a socialist who believes in controlling people's lives and taking over Christmas.

I believe it. Red suit. Lives in a land full of snow where workers produce goods for no money. Provides for the children who have obeyed the state. Brings punishment for the little bourgeois kulaks.

 

[trampledamage]

When I asked my parents how Santa could possibly know whether I was being good or not, they came up with a more plausible explanation: they told Santa whether I was being naughty or nice.

It kind of backfired. My behavior got worse. But what did they expect? It's bound to be traumatizing when you find out your mom's a fucking stool pigeon.

Try making the lesson about not telling tales after that little example!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The whole thing was always very tongue and cheek. Older people would ask if I was good this year and if Santa would show up, but they'd use a tone that suggested they weren't entirely serious. Kids can sense that pretty easily even if we didn't make the connection that they weren't serious about the Santa part.