When the Starfleet Corps of Engineers was first mentioned in TWoK I assumed they were a 'public works'/combat engineer-type organisation similar to the US Army Corps of Engineers or the Seebees, and the fleet engineers like Scotty, LaForge etc would be under Starfleet Operations (Engineering Operations was mentioned at least once on viewscreens, there also seems to be a Starfleet Engineering (Group/Division/Corps) under Starfleet Research and Development (the ASDB may be part of this)), on the other hand, TrekLit seems to suggests that all Starfleet engineers are part of the SCE (making it more like the British Army REME), which doesn't really make sense to me given the original canon reference?
Same department, different names?
- Thread starter Shamrock Holmes
- Start date
@Count Zero maybe this belongs in Treklit?
I considered putting it in TrekLit, but didn't cos although the SCE has had the most of focus in TrekLit, I'm also asking about other departments that - at least by Memory Alpha - are conflagated with the SCE, none of which have been referenced by name in TrekLit.
The SEC are named as the agency responsible for the Yellowstone-class Project in VOY: Non Sequitur, O'Brien implies that Starfleet Engineering is responsible from in-depth analysis of the Breen weapon and Klingon fixes for same in DS(: When it Rains... (This contradicts TNG: BOBW which IDs Starfleet Tactical (which many also be known as "Tactical Analysis Division" per TNG: Conspiracy as the agency responsible for this) and VOY: Frendship One again implies that the SCE are separate from fleet engineers as Janeway laments not having access to the former (or perhaps just their resources), reinforcing the initial implication from TWOK.
The SEC are named as the agency responsible for the Yellowstone-class Project in VOY: Non Sequitur, O'Brien implies that Starfleet Engineering is responsible from in-depth analysis of the Breen weapon and Klingon fixes for same in DS(: When it Rains... (This contradicts TNG: BOBW which IDs Starfleet Tactical (which many also be known as "Tactical Analysis Division" per TNG: Conspiracy as the agency responsible for this) and VOY: Frendship One again implies that the SCE are separate from fleet engineers as Janeway laments not having access to the former (or perhaps just their resources), reinforcing the initial implication from TWOK.
I tend to agree. Putting all engineers under the SCE command chain doesn't make sense.
I can understand why a ship's doctor or a star base legal defense lawyer would fall under a chain-of-command that bypasses the captain / admiral, but a ship's chief engineer doesn't have/need the same authority to "pull rank" on the captain as the doctor has.
I can understand why a ship's doctor or a star base legal defense lawyer would fall under a chain-of-command that bypasses the captain / admiral, but a ship's chief engineer doesn't have/need the same authority to "pull rank" on the captain as the doctor has.
This seems more like a discussion topic about a specific aspect of the Trekverse in general and not related to fan fiction so I'm moving it to General Trek discussion.
"Engineer" is a slippery term. The archaic meaning was basically anyone with "technical" know-how, and in military terms mainly meant building fortifications and structures. Later, navies applied it to people who dealt specifically with steam engines. In the late 1800s the US Navy had officers in the Engineer Corps who handled propulsion machinery, the Construction Corps who designed and built ships, and the Civil Engineer Corps who designed and built docks and naval yards.
I agree it wouldn't make much sense for starship warp drive engineers to be interchangeable with the ones who build facilities inside of asteroids. I always assumed the Corps of Engineers in TWOK were pretty much like the Seabees.
I agree it wouldn't make much sense for starship warp drive engineers to be interchangeable with the ones who build facilities inside of asteroids. I always assumed the Corps of Engineers in TWOK were pretty much like the Seabees.
Per the above example, Starfleet Operations - Engineering Division (aka as Engineering Operations) would be the Ships' Engineers [traditionally Engineer Corps], The Advanced Starship Design Bureau (with input from the Engineering Group/Tactical Analysis Division) would compare to the Construction Corps and the SCE would (mostly) be the Civil Engineer Corps (based on the two canon examples of their role (TWOK & VOY: Friendship One) although TrekLit suggests they also do most of the extended/specialist technical missions for Starfleet as well (so that starships aren't tied up in one spot for months on end) and sometimes even had a quasi-Special Operations flavor. Does that fit with them being similar to the Seebees?
Perhaps the SCE is the particular branch of SF that qualifies engineers, certifies them for starfleet duties and oversees competence issues relating to that certification?
Im imagining something that sits somehwere between being an active starfleet division, a licensing/registrating body and a trade union, much as the NMC operates in the UK for nurses. They take active duty instructions from their employer (ship command staff) but are answerable to the NMC for competencey hearings, etc.
Such a bvody might well also have resources made available to them for running long term or particularly large projects such as the Genesis Cave, starbase assembly, which would be either beyond normal starfleet operations or require a long term investment of time which would be a wasteful use of starfleet crew?
Im imagining something that sits somehwere between being an active starfleet division, a licensing/registrating body and a trade union, much as the NMC operates in the UK for nurses. They take active duty instructions from their employer (ship command staff) but are answerable to the NMC for competencey hearings, etc.
Such a bvody might well also have resources made available to them for running long term or particularly large projects such as the Genesis Cave, starbase assembly, which would be either beyond normal starfleet operations or require a long term investment of time which would be a wasteful use of starfleet crew?
The SCE novels portray the Corps as Starfleet line officers with technical skills but its a little unclear how the chain of command works with other ships and Starfleet Command. I figured there was a special Engineering Bureau in SC that can assign ships and officers to SCE
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