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Salt Vampires, transporters and everything

MarcKle1964

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
So I'm watching MeTV Sci-Fi Saturday Night. Tonight, the Trek is The Man Trap. Crewman gets desalted, NaCl Nancy beams up and yada-yada-yada. But, a thought occurs: The Transporter scans you to the deepest quantum level and then converts energy into living matter that is indistinquishable from you a hundredth or a thousandth of a second ago on a planet hundreds of miles below, even reassembling every electrical impulse in every pathway and in every neuron and synapse in their brains AS THEY WERE. That takes tremendous processiong power...and yet there's not one computer subroutine that detects that the being they're reassembling IS A NEWCOMER to that transporter system, has unhumanoid physiology, and then notifies whomever needs to be notified of these things? It doesn't isololate the questionable data until told it's okay to put it together? Scotty was able to 'buffer' the Klingons in DotD, so that capability was present as well.

Instead it goes 'Doopy-doopy-do' and reassembles whatever the heck it is like a good AI without heed as to what exactly it just made. You'd think it would have safeguards, so what exactly ARE all those beeping lights doing? Not keeping the crew safe from harm, evidently.
 
I think you're giving the transporter more credit then it's due. It's possible that if the transporter had a subroutine to scan for unexpected life forms (and perhaps it does by the time of TNG) that it might sound an alert or such, but I don't think we've ever seen any evidence of that. Indeed, we frequently see unauthorized uses of the transporter.

In "Day of the Dove", the transporter room has been forewarned that they're beaming up hostiles.
 
I think you're giving the transporter more credit then it's due. It's possible that if the transporter had a subroutine to scan for unexpected life forms (and perhaps it does by the time of TNG) that it might sound an alert or such, but I don't think we've ever seen any evidence of that. Indeed, we frequently see unauthorized uses of the transporter.

In "Day of the Dove", the transporter room has been forewarned that they're beaming up hostiles.

Exactly. That was why I used it as an example. Surely some screen must be blinking 'beam up salt-monster yes/no?' If not, there should be.
 
The Transporter scans you to the deepest quantum level
Isn't that supposed to be impossible in quantum mechanics? Flippancy aside, you're assuming the transporter works like a computer scanner of sorts, "digitizing" a pattern at one end and reintegrating it at the other end. Suppose it's a wormhole where the subjects are "pushed" through subspace whole? One could make that argument, as Kirk saw the transport technician attacked in "That Which Survives" while he was in the process of transport. (The same with Kirk and Saavik talking during transport in The Wrath of Khan, although I understand if one might argue that is not "canon" being outside the series.) Still, one might argue that Kirk (in "That Which Survives") was in the process of being scanned, in which case the process is not "instantaneous" and one would have a mental "hiccup" every time one was transported. Yet Kirk remembered what he saw on the other side.

It's a rabbit hole many have gone down in these forums—how does the transporter work?—and anywhere the nuances of Trek are discussed. Speculate if it makes you happy, but it's a lot of pointless effort, especially with TOS which was still feeling out the sort of fine-grain continuity the argument seeks. I'm sure one could find similar discontinuities in all the Trek spin-offs, despite having been through the sifter of precedent stories, or a detailed writer's "bible."

And then there's the zeitgeist thing. Many older sci-fi stories have a "World War II" mindset, with individually piloted fighter craft "dogfighting" in the vastness of space, despite having engines that could blip one out of an enemy's gunsights in the "wink of an eye," etc. That sort of dogfighting is rare today. And weapons launched by today's fighters are of an entirely different class. There are countless sci-fi stories that imagine weapons of war far beyond even the "capital ships slugging it out" that is popular in the Trek universe. The point is, the raw computing power to do what is suggested in the original post—scan and buffer such a massive set of information, and with programming or AI to analyze it all and warn an operator—are completely outside the "mindset" of the technology at the time the episode was written.

(Historians call it "presentism," or judging the past by the values of today, despite the fact that Trek was imagining a future embodying many sci-fi tropes. Now understand the task of prequel designers trying to make a new show look like it fits into the past of TOS. Touchscreens and the like in those older ships?)

For that matter, what about the opening scene in "Dagger of the Mind" where transport could not take effect until the Tantalus Colony lowered its shield? Think about it—they could readily communicate with Tantalus. Old style radio, or subspace, despite being close enough for old fashioned radio to have no appreciable latency? How does the transporter "communicate"? Is there a "firewall" in the Tantalus screen that allows one sort of communication through, but not another? (Consider that firewalling did not exist in IT until the 1980s.) Again, how does the transporter work? If it reaches through "subspace" or "hyperspace" in some fashion for its zero-latency function, how does one shield against that? That's like entering a completely doorless room by using a time machine to invade the space "fourth dimensionally." (Enter the space before it is closed off, then come forward.)

We must accept many things simply because that is how the writer wrote it.
 
"The Lorelei Signal" and "The Terratin Incident" suggest a transporter that disassembles and reassembles you according to a stored pattern.

"The Enemy Within" and "Second Chances" (TNG: Riker got copy-and-pasted, and left behind for years) suggest disassembly-reassembly, and an automated workaround for the conservation of mass. Eh. Shouldn't be a problem.

TNG's transporter had a bio-filter to catch pathogens, and in "The Most Toys" the transporter detected and filtered out a phaser being discharged as Mr. Data beamed up. That all suggests the scanning and disassembly method.

But then in TNG "Realm of Fear," Barkley remained conscious during transport, which suggests shooting people whole through a subspace tunnel. As happened in TWOK.

The Needs of the Plot... Outweigh... the Needs of the Continuity... Or the Logic. :vulcan:
 
There are a lot of instances where human beings, doing what they think is a routine task, don't look at indicator lights or computer messages, and the end result is less than desired. Couple that with the computers in Trek not actually being sentient, and the Enterprise being a ship that routine beams up weird things never before encountered, and I can image the situation being something like:

-Transporter Operator designates transporter targets, probably specifying "living beings and worn/carried objects."
-Transporter isolates and scans targets.
-Transporter compares scans to stored profile and discovers no known harmful or problematic items/creatures/etc
-Transporter notes two unknown profiles.
-Option One: The transporter's feedback is limited to saying "unknown profile," probably with a flashing light. Since this light goes off every time a person who's never been aboard before beams up, the Operator sees nothing of concern and carries on. Possibly saving the profiles, possibly not since they're just visiting. The latter would makes sense if there's a memory limit or a privacy concern.
-Option Two: the transporter's feedback can say both "unknown human" and "unknown member of unknown species." Now we have a number of situations that could cause the operator to just ignore the latter. Perhaps the alert for Dr. Carter pops first, so when the "unknown species" alert for Nancy pops the Operator fails to realise that it's a more significant message and just carries on. Perhaps the "unknown species" alert has been giving lots of false hits lately. Perhaps last week Captain Kirk was all up in the Operator's face, saying "Chief, when I say 'beam me up,' I expect to be beamed up immediately, not a minute later. This is a crack ship! Get it together and get it done!" Who knows?

The point is that, especially in TOS, the computer can very rarely just do something. There's always a sentient operator in the loop. And people make mistakes, especially when performing what seems to be a routing task like beaming up a couple civilians. None of this is show in the episode, of course, for the very simple reason that no-one really understood how the transporter worked and because in the 1960s the idea that a computer could reliably cross-check all this stuff and throw an alarm wasn't widely seated in the popular understanding; and also because TOS is perfectly willing to ignore things that slow down or invalidate the episode concept.

But if you want an "in-universe" explanation for why a safety check that, to a 21st-century audience, really seems like it ought to exist doesn't seem to exist, an easy place to fall back on is "operator error."
 
I guess I don't really see how this could work in practice, unless every single transporter sequence involved the operator telling the computer what it should be expecting to be transporting...which might make sense in-universe, but out-of-universe would be a bit of a story-killer.
 
.and yet there's not one computer subroutine that detects that the being they're reassembling IS A NEWCOMER to that transporter system, has unhumanoid physiology, and then notifies whomever needs to be notified of these things?
One, the transporter's functions were altered as the OS and other versions required it to. Two, the story was about the tragedies of the original Nancy, her husband's need to hang on to an illusion of his murdered wife and old flame McCoy being caught in the middle thanks to his heart. Technobabble explanations (which would've ended the episode inside of ten minutes) was a heavily abused Berman-Trek era plot device, which rendered plots as life/heartless as most Berman-era Trek series.
 
And ruin the plot? I don’t think so.
Exactly.

The transporter, at this point, was nothing more than a "magic elevator" which made it possible for characters to get from planet's surface to starship (or vice versa) without boarding another craft.

I don't think the "detect alien invader" function would be a regular transporter feature until TNG (where it became, as needed, the "magic everything box".)
 
IIRC, the transporter was a plot device to get the story started sooner, rather than waste film and studio resources filming the shore party landing and taking off on a shuttle. "Make the actors stand still on Set 5, film glitter falling thru a bright light, combine their images with Fx on the unexplored planet and we just saved five minutes of script time" essentially. The Orville made us aware of what that would be like.

But if the thing exists in the future, it should be at least as safe as they can make it. We would.
 
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In The Naked Time, the guy beams up with a virus. You'd think there would be some kind of pathogen screen.

I'm sure the real-world answer is that things being able to slip past the transporter makes for good story possibilities.
 
Simple - the transporter had no idea that they didn't WANT to transport the alien back with them. It was just told to take what was there, and bring it to here. It wasn't making decisions. It transported what it was told to.
 
Isn't that supposed to be impossible in quantum mechanics? Flippancy aside, you're assuming the transporter works like a computer scanner of sorts, "digitizing" a pattern at one end and reintegrating it at the other end. Suppose it's a wormhole where the subjects are "pushed" through subspace whole? One could make that argument, as Kirk saw the transport technician attacked in "That Which Survives" while he was in the process of transport. (The same with Kirk and Saavik talking during transport in The Wrath of Khan, although I understand if one might argue that is not "canon" being outside the series.) Still, one might argue that Kirk (in "That Which Survives") was in the process of being scanned, in which case the process is not "instantaneous" and one would have a mental "hiccup" every time one was transported. Yet Kirk remembered what he saw on the other side.


Nah. Too Thermian :)

skip to :48

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1. Transporters have Hesienberg compensators. How does a Heisenberg compensator work? Very well, actually.

2. The Salt Vampire, if you really think about the chemistry involved, is one of the most preposterous ideas ST has ever come up with. As well as being nightmare-fodder.
 
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