Retconing Admiral Marcus Into Prime Universe Literature

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Disclaimer: This is not a story idea. It is a question about a hypothetical scenario regarding a now-established character in the Star Trek universe.

Now that Admiral Marcus is an established character in the Abrams films, are Trek authors allowed to write him into literature of the prime universe? To the best of my knowledge, he didn't exist until he was used for Star Trek Into Darkness, but there clearly must be a similar individual who existed in the prime universe in order for Carol to exist. I suppose it's possible he died sometime after Carol was born and therefore wouldn't appear during the events of the TOS series or films, but if he were still around, could he be included in a novel?

I ask the question from the standpoint of whether such a thing is legal given that he was used in an Abrams film and whether Abrams characters can be used in novels of the primary continuity.

--Sran

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I bet his relationship with his grandson wasn't the greatest considering David's disdain for Starfleet.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm not sure they'd be allowed to use a character from the new movies (even in another life), since Pocket possibly doesn't have the rights to them and one would need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" at the front.

 

[Melakon]

You could always give him a completely different name and say he's Carol Marcus' uncle.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Like STID needed "Based on Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" in the credits?

I doubt Kurtzman, Lindelof or Orci would have any problem with it, and Abrams is too damn busy at this point to care. And since it owns everything Star Trek, the only reason Paramount would say no is if it had a Richard Arnold-type in their legal department.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

one would need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" at the front.

How so? The Prime-verse version of Marcus wouldn't have anything to do with STID, which never even took place in that timeline. And of course there had to have BEEN a Marcus Prime, since Carol Prime existed...

 

[Melakon]

Memory Alpha takes this position:

Alexander Marcus was only seen onscreen in Star Trek Into Darkness, which is set in the alternate reality. Memory Alpha assumes Carol Marcus' parents are the same in the prime reality, so the only things known about this version of him are his familial connections.

 

[The Wormhole]

I suspect for the time being the most we'll get is a mention to him. There's precedent for this, Kirk's Uncle Frank (his stepdad in XI) was mentioned in The Folded World. No reason why Alexander Marcus can't likewise be name-dropped.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

I bet his relationship with his grandson wasn't the greatest considering David's disdain for Starfleet.

That's an interesting point. I wonder how much of David's dislike of Kirk comes from projecting his experiences of Marcus onto him.

 

[F. King Daniel]

one would need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" at the front.

How so? The Prime-verse version of Marcus wouldn't have anything to do with STID, which never even took place in that timeline. And of course there had to have BEEN a Marcus Prime, since Carol Prime existed...

I'm afraid legal departments wouldn't care, any more than they would if Trek started including Star Wars characters. It may all be called Star Trek, but the rights don't come under the same umbrella. Alex Marcus was created by Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof for their movie and so they'd need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" just the same as the Myriad Universes books are based on the series' they took their characters from.

I suspect for the time being the most we'll get is a mention to him. There's precedent for this, Kirk's Uncle Frank (his stepdad in XI) was mentioned in The Folded World. No reason why Alexander Marcus can't likewise be name-dropped.

Yeah, a minor under-the-radar mention is one thing, but featuring him would be another.

 

[Christopher]

I'm afraid legal departments wouldn't care, any more than they would if Trek started including Star Wars characters. It may all be called Star Trek, but the rights don't come under the same umbrella. Alex Marcus was created by Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof for their movie and so they'd need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" just the same as the Myriad Universes books are based on the series' they took their characters from.

Actually, no. The IDW comics and the movie novelizations only say "Based upon Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry." After all, the Abrams movies are not really a separate series, they're an adaptation/remake of the original series. They're a derivative work based on TOS, just as much as any TOS novel or comic. So they don't warrant a separate creator credit.

 

[JD]

I bet his relationship with his grandson wasn't the greatest considering David's disdain for Starfleet.

Interesting idea, I honestly hadn't thought of that.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Interesting idea, I honestly hadn't thought of that.

Neither had I. It's a great point. David's initial antipathy toward Starfleet seemed to go beyond even Kirk, whom he clearly disliked despite their blood relationship. Did he have a relationship with his grandfather? Or was his grandfather absent from his life much as Kirk had been until TWOK?

--Sran

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm afraid legal departments wouldn't care, any more than they would if Trek started including Star Wars characters. It may all be called Star Trek, but the rights don't come under the same umbrella. Alex Marcus was created by Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof for their movie and so they'd need "Based on Star Trek Into Darkness" just the same as the Myriad Universes books are based on the series' they took their characters from.

Actually, no. The IDW comics and the movie novelizations only say "Based upon Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry." After all, the Abrams movies are not really a separate series, they're an adaptation/remake of the original series. They're a derivative work based on TOS, just as much as any TOS novel or comic. So they don't warrant a separate creator credit.

Huh, in that case I apologize.

If they can do it, why haven't Pocket said "FU" to Abrams/Bad Robot/whoever and published novels set in the Abramsverse anyway?

 

[Christopher]

If they can do it, why haven't Pocket said "FU" to Abrams/Bad Robot/whoever and published novels set in the Abramsverse anyway?

Those are two different issues. Remember, TMP is also derived from TOS, but Marvel's 1980 TMP-era comic didn't have the license for TOS content. So creator credits and licensing permissions aren't necessarily isomorphic. I was simply clarifying the credit issue, not saying anything about the licensing issue.

As I've said before, I don't actually know the specific reasons why Pocket doesn't currently publish Abramsverse content. But it seems to me that Bad Robot prefers to maintain close control over its tie-ins, and I suppose Pocket has chosen to respect that. We're all colleagues here, so there's no reason to step on each other's toes. Saying "FU" to a fellow licensee would be a rather juvenile way of operating.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Interesting idea, I honestly hadn't thought of that.

Neither had I. It's a great point. David's initial antipathy toward Starfleet seemed to go beyond even Kirk, whom he clearly disliked despite their blood relationship. Did he have a relationship with his grandfather? Or was his grandfather absent from his life much as Kirk had been until TWOK?

--Sran

Given that much of David's objection to Starfleet seemed based around their militancy, it would make sense if he got that from watching his grandfather, who is at least by what we know of him from STID a rather militaristic and militant figure. David's attitude towards his father seemed to soften when he saw he wasn't entirely a warmonger.

 

[Christopher]

Then again, the timelines diverged 26 years before STID, at which time Alexander Marcus would've been around 39 if we assume he was about Weller's age. His life could potentially have gone very differently in the two histories. I mean, we know his daughter grew up in England in the Abramsverse and somewhere with an American-sounding accent in the Prime timeline, so other major life events could've gone differently too. So he could've been a very different person for all we know.

 

[NightJim]

I agree Christopher, to an extent. There's absolutely no guarantee he'd be section 31 or behind any black projects, but I'd say he'd still have some militaristic tendencies. By 39 you've pretty much settled who you are. The Narada and everything that follows could just push him further.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I agree Christopher, to an extent. There's absolutely no guarantee he'd be section 31 or behind any black projects, but I'd say he'd still have some militaristic tendencies. By 39 you've pretty much settled who you are. The Narada and everything that follows could just push him further.

For all we know, Nero's incursion may be the reason he started working with Section 31 in the first place. That's not to say he wouldn't have been in favor of a Federation-Klingon war. It would be interesting to know what his prime universe counterpart would've done in Cartwright's place (assuming he were alive at the time of TUC).

--Sran

 

[Hando]

Well, if he was a Commander in 2239, that would mean that he entered Starfleet Academy ... I would say around 2224-2229.

Also Marcus Prime could have been against Starfleet, due to being washed out as he did not make it in Starfleet.