Rename the Novelverse (in-universe)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by F. King Daniel, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, both of those are good too.
     
  2. laibcoms

    laibcoms Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    • Star Trek Extended Universe
    • Star Trek Expanded Universe
    • Nemesis Timeline
    • Destiny Timeline (OOC) or Post-Borg Timeline (IC)
    For me, the events in Destiny truly separates the litverse timeline from the rest. STO doesn't have this event in their history, and the Borg in STO has become a cancer in that timeline.
     
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  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But where would those names come from in universe?
     
  4. laibcoms

    laibcoms Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Post-Borg Timeline is IC (In-Character / Universe). It is already referenced but not in a formal way, usually as "after the caeliar left" or "after the borg war" and similar phrases. Since they did not reset their calendation, like what is usually done in fantasy "After Cataclysm" for example, it is just another major event in history.

    The borg war is, as far as litverse is concerned, the moment in time when it diverges from the canon timeline and the STO timeline. Unless later, the canon timeline makes the events in Destiny canon (which will probably force STO to do the same). If this happens, the next would be "Post Assassination", which also rattled the region, especially the Federation.

    In any case, as far as any character is concerned, their reality is _the reality_. The only time they will be forced to put a label is when they have constant access to more than one reality.
    So far, their only constant access is the mirror universe, which only Section 31 and the Federation Intelligence knows about.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's not true. With regard to canon, there is no information yet about the status of the Borg after 2382, so Destiny is still consistent with canon, which is why the novelverse is able to remain consistent with Destiny. It makes no sense to see the novelverse as an alternate timeline to canon, because all tie-ins are required to stay consistent with canon as it exists at the time of their writing.

    With regard to STO, it has many things in it that contradict the pre-Destiny novelverse. Its version of Bajor's history and the experiences of the DS9 cast, Ro Laren, and others is completely incompatible with the novelverse version. Its depictions of alien species like the Iconians, Species 8472, the Tzenkethi, the "Elachi" (aka Vertians/"Silent Enemy" aliens), and others are irreconcilable with the novelverse versions. STO and the novels aren't alternate timelines, they're just different conjectural extrapolations from a fictional franchise.
     
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  6. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Giving USA All My Many Oil Moderator

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    They must have determined that designation by using a 3XY phagrin level - mass computer.
     
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  7. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    No. That's not how it works. STO and the litverse have different takes on ancient history and the laws of physics. There is no single divergence point.
     
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  8. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's worth poinoting out that the Kelvin Timeline's "divergence point" isn't exactly problem-free, either.

    The Kelvin timeline Gorn, for example, are as much of an issue vs Prime Trek as the Iconians in STO are vs the novelverse. Suspension of disbelief if required to make any of Trek work together. The STO novel The Needs of the Many references the novelverse and the Kelvin timeline as alternate realities to it's version of Prime. I've no doubt the author is aware that they don't "really" work as such when you dig deep, but IMO it was fun thing to include anyway.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The only canonical mention of the Gorn in the KT is a reference to McCoy delivering their young. The rest is only from tie-ins.
     
  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^Well, there are other issues too.


    Okay, so "Janeway timeline" is out because there's one in Star Trek Online's universe so it doesn't work as an out-of-universe name.

    "Borg Incursion timeline"/"Post-Borg Timeline"/Caeliar timeline" works because even though it's not an actual divergence point, Star Trek: Destiny is still the Big Defining Something™ that makes the novelverse instantly stand apart from other post-Nemesis continuities.
     
  11. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wasn't there also something in Watching the Clock about the Borg situation in the Litverse Universe being unique in all the multiverse? @Christopher can probably describe it in a way that could make that a defining title.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    On the contrary -- the point was that every faction of time travelers from the future came from timelines where the Borg had been defeated. If the Borg weren't defeated in the 24th century, they would assimilate the entire galaxy by the 27th. So all the future temporal factions had a vested interest in preserving the events that led to the fall of the Borg, which is why the Temporal Cold War bypassed the era between the Federation's founding and the events of Destiny. They didn't want to risk messing that up. Naturally a large number of subsequent timelines branched out from that point, but they had that event in common -- because timelines in which it did not occur (or in which no other means of defeating them was found) are timelines where the Borg rule the galaxy. Not a unique occurrence, more a weak anthropic principle -- future time travelers come from timelines where the Borg were defeated because those are the timelines where they're able to exist.
     
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  13. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    It's been a while since I read the ending of Destiny. Does Starfleet know the date that Mantilis landed on Arehaz? They would have to because the Full Circle Fleet visited there in the Voyager novels, right? I wonder how many times time travelers have attempted to destroy Arehaz before the landing of Mantilis so that Borg couldn't rise. Unless the Caeliar have been 100% successful in negating such operations.
     
  14. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks for reminding me of all that. I guess I was getting it mixed up with the only one surviving Janeway timeline thing.

    Well that doesn't neccessarily lead to any good name name ideas either, as far as I see.
     
  15. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder if the Borg will ever invade the MU?

    And going further from that I wonder if the Mirror Universe and Primeverse will ever be reconciled?
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The MU version of the Borg was seen in Mirror Universe: Glass Empires: The Worst of Both Worlds by Greg Cox.


    I don't understand the question. Reconciled how? As in making peace with each other, or as in making them consistent with each other like some kind of Crisis on Infinite Earths thing?

    And arguably the Mirror Universe is part of the Prime universe, in real-world terms, because it's part of the continuity of the original TV shows.
     
  17. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    For the latter point I meant harmonization and the end of any sort of alienation between the two-
    32nd century federation scientist gets to meet his counterpart from the MU, trade and exchange between the the two flourish and all the rest of the lovey doveyness of peace is achieved betwee them
    . Will that ever happen?

    Edited by trampledamage to add in the spoiler coding
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2017
  18. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As far as I know we've never gotten any identification that they would. We really don't know that much about what will happen in the future, since most of the futures we've seen are just potential futures.
    And if you're looking for future plot points, I wouldn't bother, the authors aren't about to start spoiling all of their books.
     
  19. Idran

    Idran Commodore Commodore

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    You really, really want to know about Treklit end games, don't you, Voth? :p
     
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  20. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Okay, I got some new information trough some less than legal actions. I was able to find out that all the authors actually have a planned end to the universe as we know it. Beware of spoilers:
    heat death
    :biggrin: