Regeneration - why the body change?

[Sketcher]

It's a question that's been running around my head lately. We've seen with Tennant, Smith, and Capaldi's Doctors, when fatally injured, and just prior to their bodies changing, they heal completely. They reset, to borrow Eleven's phrase for it.

So if regeneration, does exactly that, regenerate the body, why change every cell afterward? What's the point in altering the appearance and personality? I thought maybe it could some part of Time Lord biology that says "well that body failed, better not try using it again", or some strange factor to keep a Time Lord with a long life span from turning bored or corrupt with life. Although that seems to happen anyway...

 

[Elder Knight]

I thought that the building up of "regeneration energy" was what healed minor injuries. Perhaps it's too late to reverse the process at that point. (I doubt that a medical explanation is possible!)

 

[Christopher]

So if regeneration, does exactly that, regenerate the body, why change every cell afterward?

Because it wasn't supposed to be "afterward" -- it was supposed to be one and the same thing, the body healing by replacing every cell and starting over. It wasn't until "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" and the Tenth Doctor's "abortive" regeneration that the healing and the transformation were retconned into two separate things. Which never made any sense to me, since it was separating the effect from its cause.

It's part and parcel of the same problem of the modern shows having the Doctor regenerate standing up, and usually to have a long valedictory period between the fatal injury and the regeneration. The original idea was that regeneration happened at the very brink of death, that the body was so far gone that the only way to survive was to reboot and start over completely. It's contradictory to say a Time Lord is so close to death that they have to regenerate while also having them walking around and talking as if everything is fine.

 

[Jedman67]

As much as anything, this stems from plot convenience. When William Hartnell decided to step down, the decision was made that the character would "die" and "regenerate" into a new Doctor, in order to be able to explain away changing the actors. The actual regeneration process changed between seasons and producers and showrunners etc

 

[David cgc]

After "Journey's End," I decided the change in appearance is a side-effect, and not the main process. Maybe once the accelerated healing starts it wants to keep going and going until it's totally reshaped the entire body (and then, similarly, takes a while to wind back down, so the Time Lord is much more durable for the first several hours in the new body), unless the energy is expended in another way.

 

[Christopher]

As much as anything, this stems from plot convenience. When William Hartnell decided to step down, the decision was made that the character would "die" and "regenerate" into a new Doctor, in order to be able to explain away changing the actors. The actual regeneration process changed between seasons and producers and showrunners etc

Yup. At first, it was "renewal," and said to be something the TARDIS did for the Doctor. The second time, it was just called a change in appearance, and it was just something the Time Lords did so the Doctor wouldn't be recognized by his enemies on Earth (allegedly, though that didn't stick). It wasn't until the third time that it was called regeneration and established as a natural healing process. And it wasn't until years later that they established a limit of 12 regenerations (13 lives), retroactively making the Second Doctor's forced regeneration into a sort of partial death sentence, what "The Power of the Doctor" recently called the ultimate punishment, rather than the fairly casual makeover it was assumed to be in "The War Games."

Then you got the timey-wimey weirdness with the Watcher in the fourth regeneration, the first time the Doctor saw it coming. The next couple were pretty straightforward, but then you got the TV movie and Seven's regeneration into Eight being more of a horror-movie kind of thing with lightning. And then you get to the new series with the standing-up regenerations and the huge bursts of golden energy (although that can be seen as an interpretation of the whiteout effect of the first regeneration or the swirly video effects around the fourth, fifth, and sixth).

After "Journey's End," I decided the change in appearance is a side-effect, and not the main process. Maybe once the accelerated healing starts it wants to keep going and going until it's totally reshaped the entire body (and then, similarly, takes a while to wind back down, so the Time Lord is much more durable for the first several hours in the new body), unless the energy is expended in another way.

I think I see it the other way around. I figure the norm is for the regeneration to cause an appearance change -- since that's kind of the whole idea, that the body rebuilds itself and starts over -- but Ten was so intensely attached to his current persona that he somehow managed to override the process and ensure that his new body was a match for his previous one. True, that's not how he described it at the time, but it's supported by the later revelation on Trenzalore that he actually did use up a full regeneration that time, so technically he had two consecutive incarnations that looked and acted the same. And that's further reinforced by the fact that the Doctor has now managed to regain the David Tennant appearance for yet a third incarnation.

There is evidence that Time Lords can sometimes control regeneration enough to choose their appearance -- Romana in "Destiny of the Daleks" being the first example, but we also saw that Twelve's appearance was subconsciously selected to match Peter Capaldi's character in "The Fires of Pompeii" to send the Doctor a message. I figure that normally, the regeneration is uncontrolled and what you get is potluck, but in some cases, a regenerating Time Lord can consciously or subconsciously influence the outcome, either to choose a specific appearance or to keep one's current one.

 

[Jedman67]

but we also saw that Twelve's appearance was subconsciously selected to match Peter Capaldi's character in "The Fires of Pompeii" to send the Doctor a message

That was just a handwave to cover the real life production of Capaldi playing both parts.
What I found out recently was that Sacha Dhawan (the Master during 13's run) previously played Waris Hussein in An Adventure in Space and Time

 

[Christopher]

That was just a handwave to cover the real life production of Capaldi playing both parts.

Yes, and regeneration itself was a handwave to cover the real-life need to recast William Hartnell. We're talking about what's established in the fiction. The real-life reasons for it are beside the point.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's a question that's been running around my head lately. We've seen with Tennant, Smith, and Capaldi's Doctors, when fatally injured, and just prior to their bodies changing, they heal completely. They reset, to borrow Eleven's phrase for it.

The "reset" that those Doctors did just before the regeneration completes itself and they change completely is just a by-product of a BBC mandate to have them look their "traditional look" for their final scene.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

That was just a handwave to cover the real life production of Capaldi playing both parts.
What I found out recently was that Sacha Dhawan (the Master during 13's run) previously played Waris Hussein in An Adventure in Space and Time

AAiSaT is full of people who have played another role in Doctor Who.

 

[Starkers]

I never understood why they had to explain why the Doctor looked like that bloke from Pompeii, and they never explained why he looked like Commander Maxil. It coule have just been coincidence, there are only so many faces in the universe and all of us have our doppelganger somewhere in the world.

I guess what Moffat with the Curator and RTD now with the 14th Doctor have done is cemented the idea that there's no reason you couldn't have any actor who's played the Doctor before playing them again! This might make multi Doctor stories easier, although for me if a prior actor came back I'd prefer they played the Doctor differently. The Curator was basically just Tom Baker and 14, at least from what we can tell, is just 10 mark two (or is that three or four?) but I guess if you're bringing Tenant back the whole point is that you really want Ten back.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I never understood why they had to explain why the Doctor looked like that bloke from Pompeii

They did? How?

 

[Captaindemotion]

They did? How?

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[Christopher]

I never understood why they had to explain why the Doctor looked like that bloke from Pompeii, and they never explained why he looked like Commander Maxil.

Different "they." When fans of a franchise grow up to take over the franchise, the writing tends to take on the quality of fan fiction, which is often about fixating on such minor details of the series mythology and coming up with handwavey explanations for them. Moffat's tenure was full of that kind of fannish writing.

What salvages it, though, is that Moffat used the facial resemblance to serve a character point -- seeing that face reminded the Doctor of the importance of helping individuals, and that was a step in Twelve's evolution from the cold, self-absorbed figure he was initially to the highly empathetic, "just be kind" Doctor he ended up as. The ultimate goal is always to serve story and character, and if you can use a niggly continuity point in a way that advances the story or grows a character, then that justifies it.
(I've certainly done that plenty in my Trek fiction.)

 

[Starkers]

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I'm trying to remember, wasn't there once a theory that saving the Roman played by Capaldi had a direct impact on what happened to the character of Frobisher that he played in Children of Earth? Something about, by saving the Roman the Doctor incurred a debt that was eventually paid by Frobisher who had to kill his wife, kids and himself?

Different "they." When fans of a franchise grow up to take over the franchise, the writing tends to take on the quality of fan fiction, which is often about fixating on such minor details of the series mythology and coming up with handwavey explanations for them. Moffat's tenure was full of that kind of fannish writing.

What salvages it, though, is that Moffat used the facial resemblance to serve a character point -- seeing that face reminded the Doctor of the importance of helping individuals, and that was a step in Twelve's evolution from the cold, self-absorbed figure he was initially to the highly empathetic, "just be kind" Doctor he ended up as. The ultimate goal is always to serve story and character, and if you can use a niggly continuity point in a way that advances the story or grows a character, then that justifies it.
(I've certainly done that plenty in my Trek fiction.)

Yeah I can see the allure of filling in gaps (or perceived gaps) but more often than not these kind of instances tend to irk me (don't get me started on Solo, Rogue 1 or the first ten minutes of Last Crusade )

 

[Captaindemotion]

I'm trying to remember, wasn't there once a theory that saving the Roman played by Capaldi had a direct impact on what happened to the character of Frobisher that he played in Children of Earth? Something about, by saving the Roman the Doctor incurred a debt that was eventually paid by Frobisher who had to kill his wife, kids and himself?



Yeah I can see the allure of filling in gaps (or perceived gaps) but more often than not these kind of instances tend to irk me (don't get me started on Solo, Rogue 1 or the first ten minutes of Last Crusade )

Yes, I was just thinking about the Frobisher thing too. I’ve heard that theory too, though as far as I remember it was never stated onscreen (wasn’t there something about the BBC or TPTB not wanting younger viewers to have to watch Torchwood in order to understand things that happened or were mentioned in DW?).

 

[David cgc]

I'm trying to remember, wasn't there once a theory that saving the Roman played by Capaldi had a direct impact on what happened to the character of Frobisher that he played in Children of Earth? Something about, by saving the Roman the Doctor incurred a debt that was eventually paid by Frobisher who had to kill his wife, kids and himself?

Yeah, I saw that second-hand on the AV Club and mentioned it here, but I never saw the actual interview or article where RTD supposedly said it, so it's possible it's just a head-canon or rumor that's been through the game-of-telephone and became (supposedly) behind-the-scenes information. As merciless as RTD could be on his characters, that idea is still really harsh.

 

[Jedman67]

Different "they." When fans of a franchise grow up to take over the franchise, the writing tends to take on the quality of fan fiction, which is often about fixating on such minor details of the series mythology and coming up with handwavey explanations for them. Moffat's tenure was full of that kind of fannish writing.

What salvages it, though, is that Moffat used the facial resemblance to serve a character point -- seeing that face reminded the Doctor of the importance of helping individuals, and that was a step in Twelve's evolution from the cold, self-absorbed figure he was initially to the highly empathetic, "just be kind" Doctor he ended up as. The ultimate goal is always to serve story and character, and if you can use a niggly continuity point in a way that advances the story or grows a character, then that justifies it.
(I've certainly done that plenty in my Trek fiction.)

I've slowly been going back through Moffat's era, and surprisingly, the fannish stuff is just easter eggs (for the most part). He has a knack for really subtle character work. Sometimes he gets overboard with his mythology or too full of his cleverness but most of his era was quite well done.
Bringing Matt Lucas back as a part time companion was absolute genius.

 

[Christopher]

I've slowly been going back through Moffat's era, and surprisingly, the fannish stuff is just easter eggs (for the most part).

As I see it, the whole thing is fannish. Before Moffat, Doctor Who was a show about the Doctor exploring the universe. Under Moffat, it became a show about the universe reacting to the Doctor. Everything revolved around how amazing the Doctor was, how unique the Doctor was, how much people were inspired or frightened by the Doctor, how far people would go to stop or contain or have sex with the Doctor, how pretty much everything that happened in the whole universe was ultimately about the Doctor. The whole thing was an extended exercise of a fan of the Doctor geeking out about how awesome the Doctor was, and having everyone in the universe be just as impressed by the Doctor as the writer was. That's the ultimate in fannish writing. (Though it's a trend that was taken to even more ridiculous extremes in the Chibnall era, to the point that the Doctor was elevated from just a rogue Time Lord to the single most important figure in Time Lord history, and the villain in "Flux" literally tried to destroy the entire universe merely to stop the Doctor.)

Moffat and Gatiss did pretty much the same thing in Sherlock. In the very first episode, when the bad guy did this whole monologue analyzing Sherlock's character, it sounded less like a criminal sizing up his opposition and more like a couple of die-hard Sherlock Holmes fans writing an essay about the character and putting it in the mouth of the criminal. It was all about "Hey, audience, let's all geek about about how awesome and fascinating Sherlock Holmes is" rather than just telling stories about Sherlock Holmes solving crimes.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm trying to remember, wasn't there once a theory that saving the Roman played by Capaldi had a direct impact on what happened to the character of Frobisher that he played in Children of Earth? Something about, by saving the Roman the Doctor incurred a debt that was eventually paid by Frobisher who had to kill his wife, kids and himself?

Yeah, I saw that second-hand on the AV Club and mentioned it here, but I never saw the actual interview or article where RTD supposedly said it, so it's possible it's just a head-canon or rumor that's been through the game-of-telephone and became (supposedly) behind-the-scenes information. As merciless as RTD could be on his characters, that idea is still really harsh.

Yep, this comes direct from RTD on the Children of Earth DVD set. Though, it never made sense to me. Time wasted no, err, time correcting Adelaide Brook's survival in Waters of Mars, compelling her to commit suicide right away. But a Roman family that should have died instead survives, and Time instead waits two thousand years and makes their descendants die in a murder/suicide as the correction?

Fortunately, it seems they ignored this ridiculous notion with the Lockdown sequel to Fires of Pompeii in 2020. Granted, their take, that the modern day descendants of the family basically do the exact same jobs as the family in Pompeii did is still rather silly, but such silliness is acceptable for a five minute webisode.