Reason for holographic communication and its abolishment?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by ChrisRBee, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. ChrisRBee

    ChrisRBee Ensign Newbie

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    After „Project Daedalus“ I think that actually Control suggested and introduced holographic communication and that these systems were lateron abolished together with other dubious Section 31 ideas, after things like the forged holographic evidence framing Spock and the communication with the dead Admirals were discovered and Section 31 was probably officially dismantled after this whole affair and reduced to a rogue undercover organization What do you think?
     
  2. Q2UnME

    Q2UnME Commodore Commodore

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    First off, Welcome to the TrekBBS!

    Yeah, I could see holographic communications being deemed verboten after the revelation that they can be used as 'fake evidence' or faked all together to give bogus commands. It also opens a back door explanation (retcon) why they are not used in 10 year time (TOS)
     
  3. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why would holographic communication be abolished just because it might have been created by Section 31? Did we abolish webcams just because Mark Zuckerberg used them to spy on people? If there’s something insidious about it, just tweak it, don’t abandon it altogether.
     
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  4. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    I think a better argument is the Control AI brought about a pullback from advanced AI systems to the simpler forms seen in TOS compared to what we see in Discovery. It took someone like Daystrom to get the fleet to try again in The Ultimate Computer which really set them back from such for a while.
     
  5. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    This is the same federation that abandoned genetic enhancements because of the Eugenics Wars. If they're scared enough of something, they do seem to drop it cold turkey.
    AI as a very real and unsolvable threat could lead (perhaps should lead) society to pare back heavily on AI developments, using artificial computation only for what was absolutely necessary to that society's existence.
     
  6. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    TNG forward, the computers don't seem much more advanced than TOS given how far ahead they are time wise. They keep the holodecks very separate from the mainframe it seems. (I'm not sure on that one, Voyager had them separate I think.) Also, no one has too many arguments with getting the computer to do something like Burnham had doing her prison break in s1 while the life support was failing. Command overrides seem to work easier like no one plans to argue with a computer again in the TNG era, overall.
     
  7. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    Data seems to be kept, at leas in some cases in individual media, as well, even multiple PADDS on occasion. Obviously the real reason is that they never could have predicted just how far computer networking would come in a few decades, but it works well enough.
    Add to that, that the UFP DOES have the ability to store massive amounts of data. The central computer for Genesis apparently stored enough information to create an entire biosphere. They just seem to be very conservative in how they use that data or network it, going forward. Maybe the Fed got their own little Butlerian moment from Dune.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There’s a world of difference between using a piece of software or hardware, and making genetic changes to your body.
     
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  9. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yet, for some reason, they keep the holodecks around despite them being death traps.
     
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  10. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

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    If you think about how Quark used holosuites, it makes sense (in-universe) that the demand for them would be way too high, even at the highest ranks. Even if no one will outright admit the reason they are keeping them, they won't abolish them.

    Voyager showed they were even used as tools for Vulcans dealing with Pon Farr (literally a life or death matter for a Vulcan) if the Vulcan is out of range of civilization.
     
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  11. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Commander Red Shirt

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    It’s due to 2019 tech vs. 1989 tech.
     
  12. ChrisRBee

    ChrisRBee Ensign Newbie

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    Good you made that clear - I‘m
    sure nobody ever thought of that. Obviously I was thinking about an in-universe-explanation. Of course those changes, like the initial Klingon makeup change for TMP, are for budget and Zeitgeist reasons but that does not mean that it couldn‘t, shouldn‘t or wouldn’t be explained in one way or another, now or later ‍♂️
     
  13. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

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    Another in-universe explanation is that holoprojectors on the bridge could probably be hacked. Literally all the Klingons would have to do would be to hack the holoprojectors on the Enterprise bridge to ensure the Enterprise bridge is filled with holographic bouncing tribbles. The tactical officer wouldn't even be able to see the weapons controls.

    Hacking a regular viewscreen wouldn't cause nearly that much chaos.
     
  14. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe the near-perfect holograms that section 31 used to fake Spock's escape and the Admirals was secret technology that didn't see the light of day in use for the masses until later.

    The see-through flickery holograms that Strarfleet uses for communication might have fallen out of favor on ships because of the poor quality. Pike said they look like ghosts and ordered them all ripped out of the Enterprise. Pike may not be alone in his disdain for them, with possibly other captains following suit, making them more of a rarity in TOS time.

    It should be noted that Picard's main view screen on the bridge is holographic. We usually don't notice because we usually only view it straight-on. However, there were a few episodes where we saw the screen from the side, and the entire angle of what was on the screen changed -- indicating that the main view screen of the Enterprise D had holographic capabilities.
     
  15. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

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    Imagine if a holographic Locutus had been walking around on the bridges of ships at Wolf 359 taunting them. It was bad enough he was on their viewscreens but him mocking them in their presence, holographically, would have been a real distraction and morale killer.

    Even the split second shock of seeing a group of holographic Borg on the bridge might be the necessary delay needed for the Borg to fire first, before the crew realize they're just holograms.
     
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  16. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Even in 100 years time.

    It's A Fake 1a.jpeg
     
  17. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

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    Picard will keep a Vreenak clone on hand to detect any fake holographic transmissions.

    There will be a throwaway line stating Sisko can actually return from the Prophets any time he wants, but he's staying away as he'll be arrested and court martialed on his return.
     
  18. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Verified Disney Princess Moderator

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    But the faked footage and fake Admiral were on standard view screens. Banning holographic communication doesn’t make sense because it wasn’t the problem. I also don’t like the idea that they would ban AI research. Maybe enforce more control over it, but there’s all kinds of robots and AI on TOS. It’s probably just not as common to encounter since the Enterprise was exploring new areas while the Discovery tends to be closer to Federation space. Plus Pike much like Adama on nuBSG preferred the simpler tech, so some of it like the holographic communication was stripped out. Other ships may not have done so, we just never saw it.
     
  19. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    It seems like the holodeck users should really be worried about a holodeck malfunction happening in the midst of that kind of usage, and potentially physically mangling them in unspeakably horrific ways.

    Kot
     
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  20. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

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    I'm sure it's on the writer's list for how the Picard show can more effectively compete with shows like Game of Thrones. We can't have a TNG era show without a holodeck malfunction, after all.