Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

[alpha_leonis]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife recently after watching a particular episode of "Babylon 5", where Commander Ivanova sits Shiva in memory of her father. To the best of our knowledge, this is nearly the only time in any futuristic Sci-fi where any human character follows any kind of religion that's directly recognizable from our current human practice. The later "Dune" novels also feature a band of travelling Jews, and just like Ivanova, their form of Judaism is entirely recognizable based on modern 21st Century practice.

In other Sci-fi shows and books, I can't think of a single human character who follows a truly recognizable religion, as opposed to a fictionalized rearrangement or something entirely made-up from whole cloth.

• Dune's Fremen follow a "Buddislamic" or "Zensunni" religion
• Other Dune characters honor the Orange Catholic Bible
• Babylon 5's Doctor Franklin is a "Foundationist", which is a religion made up for the show.
• Honor Harrington follows a combination of "Second Reformation Catholicism" (another fictionalized rearrangement) and "Graysonism" (entirely made-up)

But the vast majority of human sci-fi characters follow no religion whatsoever, sometimes being even openly hostile to religion (I'm thinking specifically of Captain Picard in "Who Watches the Watchers" -- but in that case he was openly opposed to the formation of a religion based on him personally.) I'm curious why that pattern tends to emerge in future-fiction, and why Judaism out of all possibilities is the only one that survives in a pure (meaning, 21st-century modern) form?

 

[alpha_leonis]

Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.

IIRC Gene Roddenberry specifically rejected a network request to include a Christian chaplain on the Enterprise during TOS, since it went against his ideas of a diverse crew base (including religious diversity.)

 

[Vendikarr]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife recently after watching a particular episode of "Babylon 5", where Commander Ivanova sits Shiva in memory of her father. To the best of our knowledge, this is nearly the only time in any futuristic Sci-fi where any human character follows any kind of religion that's directly recognizable from our current human practice. The later "Dune" novels also feature a band of travelling Jews, and just like Ivanova, their form of Judaism is entirely recognizable based on modern 21st Century practice.

In other Sci-fi shows and books, I can't think of a single human character who follows a truly recognizable religion, as opposed to a fictionalized rearrangement or something entirely made-up from whole cloth.

• Dune's Fremen follow a "Buddislamic" or "Zensunni" religion
• Other Dune characters honor the Orange Catholic Bible
• Babylon 5's Doctor Franklin is a "Foundationist", which is a religion made up for the show.
• Honor Harrington follows a combination of "Second Reformation Catholicism" (another fictionalized rearrangement) and "Graysonism" (entirely made-up)

But the vast majority of human sci-fi characters follow no religion whatsoever, sometimes being even openly hostile to religion (I'm thinking specifically of Captain Picard in "Who Watches the Watchers" -- but in that case he was openly opposed to the formation of a religion based on him personally.) I'm curious why that pattern tends to emerge in future-fiction, and why Judaism out of all possibilities is the only one that survives in a pure (meaning, 21st-century modern) form?

Well Judaism is one of the oldest religions still in practice today, and it's traditions haven't changed much in millennia. If you want to depict a terran religion in the future, Judaism may be a good choice.

In the two millennia Christianity has been on the scene, it had splintered, changed and evolved many times. In a future setting there may be sects unrecognizable to modern audiences because that particular faith seems so prone to change.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace".

I thought that was a very touching scene. The lyrics do, after all, hold some parallels to Spock's life...

Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.

I think it's entirely possible that non-humans could adopt Earth religious beliefs. And also the reverse.

 

[alpha_leonis]

In the two millennia Christianity has been on the scene, it had splintered, changed and evolved many times. In a future setting there may be sects unrecognizable to modern audiences because that particular faith seems so prone to change.

That's actually a good point, if you're referring to Protestant churches specifically. But if it's longevity you're looking for, Catholic and Orthodox Christians each have at least a millennium and a half of tradition behind them. But you never see anybody on Star Trek going to Mass, for example.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But you never see anybody on Star Trek going to Mass, for example.

Phlox did once. He said he attended Mass at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

 

[alpha_leonis]

Phlox did once. He said he attended Mass at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

But Phlox isn't human, and he almost certainly isn't Catholic. I'm looking for human examples.

 

[MacLeod]

Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.

IIRC Gene Roddenberry specifically rejected a network request to include a Christian chaplain on the Enterprise during TOS, since it went against his ideas of a diverse crew base (including religious diversity.)

Some poeple who aren't Christian might have Amazing Grace played at their funeral. Besides TSFS is set circa 2283. Just because some might assicate it more with being a Christan Hymn today, doesn't mean the same will be true in over two hundred from now.

 

[sojourner]

I didn't think there was a rule that certain songs could only be played at certain funerals.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Phlox did once. He said he attended Mass at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

But Phlox isn't human, and he almost certainly isn't Catholic. I'm looking for human examples.

Well, the fact that there was a Mass for him to attend in the first place, suggests that people still go to it.

 

[MacLeod]

Touche.

Besides we have circumstantial evidence about Religon survinvg into the 24th Century.

Picard's Christmas experiance in the Nexus


Kirks like from "Who Mourns for Adonais?" ; "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate."

Now of course as I said it's circumstantial and doesn't 100% prove anything.

 

[Jan]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife recently after watching a particular episode of "Babylon 5", where Commander Ivanova sits Shiva in memory of her father. To the best of our knowledge, this is nearly the only time in any futuristic Sci-fi where any human character follows any kind of religion that's directly recognizable from our current human practice.

Don't forget the long line of religious people Sinclair introduced at the end of "Parliament of Dreams", too.

And since Franklin's Foundationism was mentioned, hope nobody minds my posting this excerpt that was posted several years ago:

FROM "THE FOUNDATION"

We are born capable of greatness. It's when we allow ourselves to become discouraged, to see ourselves as failures, when we fail to recognize our inherent nobility, that we grow small, and diminish, and ultimately sacrifice our dreams on the altar of more realistic expectations of ourselves.

When that happens, we forget who we are, what we are here for, and what we want to achieve, knowledge that is always within us...until we choose not to remember it any longer because the memory pains us, and because it is easier to settle for less than our dreams demand of us.

Children sing and dance spontaneously, tell stories without fear, reveal their thoughts without inhibition, and reach for what logic tells us should be unattainable. That is who and what we are in our most elemental form. We do, we explore, we ask questions; we pursue our heart's desires, we dream of achieving greatness. But as time passes, we learn fear, we learn to second-guess ourselves, and we
learn to suspect our abilities and our desires. We are told that some people tell stories, some people dance, and some people sing, but these things are not for everyone. When we try to express our innermost thoughts, we are told to be quiet, that no one wants to hear what it is we have to say, and that even if they did want to hear it, what we say has no innate value. When we lose the spark of spontaneity
that was born inside us, which is our greatest gift, we progressively eliminate the possibility of finding joy and purpose, and inch by inch, our dreams slip away from us.

If we are to be who we are, and what we are; if we are to accomplish great things, then we must learn the heart's most essential rule:
Never Surrender Dreams.

IMO, it should be required reading by everybody but especially parents.

Jan

 

[Shawnster]

Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.

IIRC Gene Roddenberry specifically rejected a network request to include a Christian chaplain on the Enterprise during TOS, since it went against his ideas of a diverse crew base (including religious diversity.)

Some poeple who aren't Christian might have Amazing Grace played at their funeral. Besides TSFS is set circa 2283. Just because some might assicate it more with being a Christan Hymn today, doesn't mean the same will be true in over two hundred from now.

The song was originally connected with literal slavery in England. If it can be co-opted to become a song for spiritual wretches, it can be reinterpreted for a half-Vulcan.

In one if the newer Twilight Zones there is an episode that is set in the future and deals with the Starbof Bethlehem.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_(The_Twilight_Zone)

Battlestar Galactica dealt with religion quite a bit, albeit not any modern Earth religions.

 

[Morpheus 02]

But the vast majority of human sci-fi characters follow no religion whatsoever, sometimes being even openly hostile to religion (I'm thinking specifically of Captain Picard in "Who Watches the Watchers" -- but in that case he was openly opposed to the formation of a religion based on him personally.) I'm curious why that pattern tends to emerge in future-fiction, and why Judaism out of all possibilities is the only one that survives in a pure (meaning, 21st-century modern) form?

I think it's already been mentioned, but much of the Judaism (religious part) is pretty much the same as it has been for many years.

I would throw in my personal opinion that it's also because it is not really an evangelistic religion. Those who follow Judaism aren't know to encourage outsiders to join their faith. It's more of an inherited thing.


I think the writers don't feel (and have previously been) threatened by Judaism, so they feel it's one religion that they know enough about that they are fine with it surviving into the future.

With other religions, I don't think the writers have allowed themselves to have conversations with religious people who are thoughtful (yes, they are out there), who could help walk them through what their religion would look like in the future.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Among the main characters in Dan Simmons' Hyperion novels are Jews and Catholics. The latter feature heavily in the last two installments Endymion and Rise of Endymion. Muslims and Buddhists are also featured in the novels.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Touche.

Besides we have circumstantial evidence about Religon survinvg into the 24th Century.

Picard's Christmas experiance in the Nexus

That is an example of cultural heritage, not practised religion. My family is completely atheistic, yet we celebrate christmas.
We don't celebrate the religious part of it, just the secular aspects. Yet we still call it christmas, because thats part of our cultural heritage.
Same for Picard.

 

[Greg Cox]

I seem to recall some sympathetic Muslim characters in Pitch Dark.

 

[alpha_leonis]

I seem to recall some sympathetic Muslim characters in Pitch Dark.

Now that you mention it, there was also one in the movie adaptation of "Ender's Game." (I've never read the book.)

And as a tangent, I forget the name of the series by Orson Scott Card that was almost a direct retelling of the Book of Mormon (Card himself is LDS.)

 

[HotRod]

Ashley Williams from Mass Effect is christian and talked often about her faith.

 

[Neroon]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife recently after watching a particular episode of "Babylon 5", where Commander Ivanova sits Shiva in memory of her father. To the best of our knowledge, this is nearly the only time in any futuristic Sci-fi where any human character follows any kind of religion that's directly recognizable from our current human practice. The later "Dune" novels also feature a band of travelling Jews, and just like Ivanova, their form of Judaism is entirely recognizable based on modern 21st Century practice.

In addition to the example Jan cited, there was also the recurring character of Brother Theo who was decidedly Christian, Roman Catholic monks in fact, though I don't know their specific order.