Re: Transports in New Trek (novelization)

[Creedence]

Hey all.

I'm in the middle of the Star Trek novelization and just red how Chekov used the trasporter to rescue Kirk and Sulu from their free fall over Vulcan. The passage states that Kirk and Sulu's duplicates appeared on the transporter pad. If this the way the transporter operates in the new reality?

In traditional Trek, the tranporter converts matter to energy, transports it, and reconstitutes it. This technology preserves your being.

Transporters that duplicate you effectively kill you during your first trip. Perhaps the users accept the fact and are OK with it. After all, your duplicate has your DNA, and all your thoughts and memories. But, your duplicate is not you.

Thoughts?

~Creedence

 

[Toruika]

Re: Transports in New Trek

No wonder McCoy distrusts the thing.

I didn't catch that when I read the novelization, good one! Reminds me of.. what movie was that? The Illusionist? No... was the other one, with Hugh Jackman. Gah. Anyway... creepy version of the transporter, indeed. I wonder what the ethics are... how was transporter technology handled in Enterprise? Same as the original? Did they not go into it? Just wondering, given nuTrek canon...

 

[Borgminister]

Re: Transports in New Trek

Not. canon. .

 

[Daneel]

Re: Transports in New Trek

No wonder McCoy distrusts the thing.

I didn't catch that when I read the novelization, good one! Reminds me of.. what movie was that? The Illusionist? No... was the other one, with Hugh Jackman. Gah.

The Prestige.

Anyway... creepy version of the transporter, indeed. I wonder what the ethics are... how was transporter technology handled in Enterprise? Same as the original? Did they not go into it? Just wondering, given nuTrek canon...

Some fans have speculated that the original series transporter worked in the manner suggested by the OP, that they would effectively kill you when you're disassembled and then put together an exact replica of you, with all the memories of the original (at least, I've met a few fans who seemed to think this).

There was an episode of Enterprise that set the record straight ("Daedalus" in Season 4). It featured the man who invented the transporter talking about this apparently common misconception about transporters, laughing and saying there wasn't an ounce of truth to it. The transporter does indeed just convert you to energy, transport you, and then reconstitute you -- the original you, not some sort of duplicate. So there you go.

 

[Creedence]

Re: Transports in New Trek

Enterprise [/I]that set the record straight ("Daedalus" in Season 4). It featured the man who invented the transporter talking about this apparently common misconception about transporters, laughing and saying there wasn't an ounce of truth to it. The transporter does indeed just convert you to energy, transport you, and then reconstitute you -- the original you, not some sort of duplicate. So there you go.

Oh, did we have to refer to Enterprise to answer this? I really don't like that show! Just kidding. That old guy was a bit crazy for me to take everything he said as gospel.

In any event, whether true matter/energy conversion or duplication, McCoy is right to fear the technology. There have been more than enough mishaps with the transporter to preclude me from ever using it. I don't think the world is ready for an evil me.

 

[Toruika]

Re: Transports in New Trek

Thanks for the info, Daneel!

So I guess when we see discrepancies like this one, just toss it over the shoulder with a grain of salt.

 

[Phily B]

I dunno, being converted to energy and then turned back into you seems like dying. I guess its no different to being dead on an operating table though.

 

[Creedence]

I appreciate the great discussion over transporters. After giving it some more thought, I really don't see how any transporter doesn't kill you. You don't feel different because everything is just where is was but I believe death is a necessary part of transporter function.

 

[Jeri]

What?! I don't remember that from the novelization either.

But I do remember characters talking to one another during transportation in one of the movies. They were carrying on a conversation, got rematerialized, and then just walked off the transporter pad, IIRC. Would be impossible if they were "killed" in the process.

Also, the duplicates idea would be out of whack with Reg Barclay's nightmare experience, where he was suspended in the transporter for so long.

 

[trampledamage]

Also, the duplicates idea would be out of whack with Reg Barclay's nightmare experience, where he was suspended in the transporter for so long.

You're right, in TNG at least, you are conscious within the matter stream - Reg sees things moving.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm in the middle of the Star Trek novelization and just red how Chekov used the trasporter to rescue Kirk and Sulu from their free fall over Vulcan. The passage states that Kirk and Sulu's duplicates appeared on the transporter pad. If this the way the transporter operates in the new reality?

IIRC, this theory of how transportation actually works was first explored in the early Bantam novel "Spock Must Die!" by James Blish.

Nothing new about it.

Remember, also, TNG's "Second Chances". Riker boards his ship but an identical duplicate (or is it the original that should have ceased to exist in a normal situation?) is bounced back to the planet and abandoned there.

 

[Guartho]

What?! I don't remember that from the novelization either.

I do. I'm nerdy enough that I instantly noticed that it contradicted the line from Enterprise.

 

[Jeri]

That ENT episode was kind of a chore; not the best time I ever had watching Trek.

 

[xman]

But I do remember characters talking to one another during transportation in one of the movies. They were carrying on a conversation, got rematerialized, and then just walked off the transporter pad, IIRC. Would be impossible if they were "killed" in the process.

TWOK discussing the 'code' used in communication between Enterprise and the Genesis cave.

If the transporter is considered death then warp speed might be as well. Heck, riding a plane provides some relativistic function and the rest of the universe might consider you dead. Look at it like this: Is the sound from a guitar string eliminated because that gets turned into an electric impulse and reconverted to sound by an amplifier? I say no. So it's still you.

 

[Timofnine]

Maybe the nuTrek transporter does destroy the original body and recreate a new identical one... but also it 'transports' the soul from the old to the new body in the process.

 

[Augustus]

If the transporters kill you, that is lame. That means kirk dies about 4 times in this movie and spock dies when he goes to save his parents and then also dies again when they beam back. The idea just seems silly to me.

 

[Jeri]

TWOK discussing the 'code' used in communication between Enterprise and the Genesis cave...

Hey, thanks! Very nice. I need to bone up on my movies. I haven't watched them in almost decades, so they are growing dim.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Transports in New Trek

The transporter does indeed just convert you to energy, transport you, and then reconstitute you -- the original you, not some sort of duplicate. So there you go.

This is like saying that you could drop someone into a Cuisinart, reduce them to People Puree - and then if you could somehow reassemble the molecules into a copy it would mean that they hadn't been killed.

Doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[Ovation]

The transporter, like time travel, in Trek raises all sorts of implications most people find uncomfortable. As such, most people ignore the implications and just enjoy the show/movie.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The transporter, like time travel, in Trek raises all sorts of implications most people find uncomfortable. As such, most people ignore the implications and just enjoy the show/movie.

Yep!

In fact, some people ignore the implications and just write the show!