Rand's Rank

[ChallengerHK]

Is there a consensus on Rand's rank as of TOS?

I've always considered her an Ensign, but I largely base this on her uniform. The non-coms in TOS appear to be wearing the jumpsuit uniform. On the other hand, she's "Chief Rand" in TMP, although I don't believe that this is spoken or appearing onscreen anywhere, so it could be incorrect info. If she is a Chief (probably short for Chief Petty Officer, but possible one of the variations such as Master Chief Petty Officer), and if Star Fleet follows the US Navy's lead in that regard, then being a CPO would be a major step backward for her. On the other other hand, "Chief" could be short for "Transporter Chief", a position and not a rank.

What's the word? Is there anything definitive?

 

[BillJ]

I think TMP intended for her to be a Chief Petty Officer, though her later appearances, notably as a full Commander on the Excelsior, means she was probably a Lieutenant or Lieutenant J.G. in the movie.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

In TMP she does have a rank insignia that has been identified as Chief Petty Officer (not sure if that is legit or just speculation), in TVH she is seen in an enlisted jumpsuit and in TUC she is a lieutenant JG/lieutenant (the actress does appear in TSFS as a lieutenant commander/commander, though is credited as "woman in cafeteria", so not sure if that is meant to be Rand or not).

In the series, I always though she was a Petty Officer of some grade. Unless you go with Roddenberry's initial idea that they would all be officers, but that seems to have been scrapped from TMP onwards.

 

[ChallengerHK]

her later appearances, notably as a full Commander on the Excelsior,

Good catch. I completely forgot about that.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Is there a consensus on Rand's rank as of TOS?

I've always considered her an Ensign, but I largely base this on her uniform. The non-coms in TOS appear to be wearing the jumpsuit uniform. On the other hand, she's "Chief Rand" in TMP, although I don't believe that this is spoken or appearing onscreen anywhere, so it could be incorrect info. If she is a Chief (probably short for Chief Petty Officer, but possible one of the variations such as Master Chief Petty Officer), and if Star Fleet follows the US Navy's lead in that regard, then being a CPO would be a major step backward for her. On the other other hand, "Chief" could be short for "Transporter Chief", a position and not a rank.

From what I'm reading, Yeoman is an enlisted person, not a commissioned officer. So she would rank below Chekov in TOS. She appears to be a non-commissioned officer, and since she works for the Captain himself, I would guess a Chief Petty Officer. Or maybe not. They never said.

Also, if by jumpsuit you mean the red or blue coveralls worn in TOS, I think those are for anybody doing work that would mess up their proper uniform. Lt. Uhura wore coveralls in "Who Mourns for Adonais."

What I object to is that TOS made Yeoman a nearly all-female profession. That was dumb, and I think it misled millions of people about what that job title means.

 

[BillJ]

Guess I was wrong, she is wearing a Lieutenant's rank at the beginning of TUC.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Unless you go with Roddenberry's initial idea that they would all be officers, but that seems to have been scrapped from TMP onwards.

I'm pretty sure that that is indeed a major part of the problem. Post-Roddenberry writers seem to be sending her in two different directions based on their adherence to that idea, or lack thereof.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'm pretty sure that that is indeed a major part of the problem. Post-Roddenberry writers seem to be sending her in two different directions based on their adherence to that idea, or lack thereof.

Maybe she had a Riker transporter duplicate moment, though both her duplicated selves were beamed back to the ship, one then went along the enlisted path and the other worked hard to become an officer, so the "woman in canteen" is a copy of Rand

 

[J.T.B.]

Everyone below LTJG in TOS wore the same uniform with no rank stripe. The jumpsuits are working dress and worn by officers as well. Lawton in "Charlie X" is a yeoman 3rd class, so it seems safe to assume that OS Rand was similar, but a higher enlisted grade.

In The Making of Star Trek The Motion Picture there is a reproduction of a memo on the ranks of the main cast. Rand is identified as a chief petty officer. The square on the shoulder tab was supposed to be CPO insignia, with a triangle for PO.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Also, if by jumpsuit you mean the red or blue coveralls worn in TOS, I think those are for anybody doing work that would mess up their proper uniform. Lt. Uhura wore coveralls in "Who Mourns for Adonais."

Another good catch. I did not realize this.

From what I'm reading, Yeoman is an enlisted person, not a commissioned officer. So she would rank below Chekov in TOS. She appears to be a non-commissioned officer, and since she works for the Captain himself, I would guess a Chief Petty Officer. Or maybe not. They never said.

Agreed. Can I ask where you read this?

 

[ChallengerHK]

The Making of Star Trek The Motion Picture there is a reproduction of a memo on the ranks of the main cast. Rand is identified as a chief petty officer. The square on the shoulder tab was supposed to be CPO insignia, with a triangle for PO.

I for one do consider the producer's intent to be valuable, but if it wasn't onscreen somehow I wouldn't hold myself to it.

 

[BillJ]

Guess I was wrong, she is wearing a Lieutenant's rank at the beginning of TUC.

And, of course, she's wearing full Commander's rank in Voyager's "Flashback". I knew I saw that rank somewhere.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x02/flashback088.jpg

 

[J.T.B.]

I for one do consider the producer's intent to be valuable, but if it wasn't onscreen somehow I wouldn't hold myself to it.

But she was wearing the chief petty officer insignia in TMP.

 

[ChallengerHK]

But she was wearing the chief petty officer insignia in TMP.

I see where you're coming from. From my point of view, did Rand, or anyone else, point to that patch and say anything like "This indicates that you're a CPO, and that means..." If not (and I don't recall anyone doing anything like that), it might mean that she is, and it might mean that she's not. Even if that is what the patch means, they have a way of retconning things anyway.

I think it's pretty clear that they did intend for her to be some flavor of Petty Officer in TMP, for what it's worth. I'm not sure that fits, or fits well, with her being a non-com for so long then being an officer.

 

[Tenacity]

one then went along the enlisted path and the other worked hard to become an officer

Or she was a hard working enlisted, as opposed to a officer who sat around all day? During TOS she does seem to run around the ship doing various tasks.

My head canon has her as a senior crewman or junior petty officer. Never was clear on how old Rand was supposed to be, not the actresses mid thirty I think.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Never was clear on how old Rand was supposed to be, not the actresses mid thirty I think.

I think so too. I always considered her mid-20s, not so young that Kirk's attraction to her would feel pervy, but young enough to be somewhat short on life experience. Purely head canon.

 

[Henoch]

Since Rand is "assigned" to the Captain, I assume she is a senior Yeoman on ship during TOS due to her duties and her age. I'd put her most probably as Yeoman First Class (E-6), but with a small Yeoman pool, an argument for Yeoman Second Class (E-5) could be made. A Chief Petty Officer (E-7) is only a modest promotion, but then again, most of the other crew members only got one promotion by TMP, too.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Can I ask where you read this?

Just general stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeoman_(United_States_Navy)
http://www.uniforms-4u.com/p-us-navy-yeoman-yn-rating-badge-3933.aspx
https://www.navycs.com/navy-jobs/yeoman.html

 

[ChallengerHK]

Did we establish similar relevant information for O'Brien during TNG? Was he CPO Obrien, Transporter Chief O'Brien, or both?

 

[J.T.B.]

I see where you're coming from. From my point of view, did Rand, or anyone else, point to that patch and say anything like "This indicates that you're a CPO, and that means..." If not (and I don't recall anyone doing anything like that), it might mean that she is, and it might mean that she's not. Even if that is what the patch means, they have a way of retconning things anyway.

Well sure, but the evidence is stronger for that than for another interpretation. The insignia for ensign and up are identifiable through dialogue or interpretation of dialogue, and Rand's is not among those.

In TOS, you have Rand and Lawton in the same scene, same rank-less uniform (one blue, one red). Lawton's rank is specifically identified: yeoman third class, just like an E-4 in the US Navy. Rand is also identified as a yeoman in the episode. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to infer that Rand held a similar enlisted position.

I think it's pretty clear that they did intend for her to be some flavor of Petty Officer in TMP, for what it's worth. I'm not sure that fits, or fits well, with her being a non-com for so long then being an officer.

Most military forces in the 20th century developed pathways for enlisted personnel to become commissioned officers. I'm sure Starfleet would have something similar, though the timeline for her getting to the rank of commander may be more problematic than just her being commissioned.