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Random thoughts about... (movie spoilers)

borgfan8of5 said:
Again, there is a very small chance that one of picards parents were killed/ didn't meet spouse/conceive the child on a different day. Maybe one of his ancestors was killed/never met their spouse, but it still doesnt' change the fact that in all likelihood there should be little to no difference from timeline to timeline after 100 years or so. It's like saying, what if the titanic would have never sunk, of course some things in our society would have been different, some people would have never existed, but are you saying that the vast majority of us would be different/non existant. And don't say the stupid science crap again, I know how biology works, it's pretty simple stuff overall.

Sexual reproduction is a complete crapshoot. I have red hair my sister doesn't. Don't you think that my social circle and interactions are completely different from her blonde variety?

Jean-Luc could have turned out fat and with a predispostion for wine growing like his brother Robert. Would you argue that Robert and Jean-Luc are the same person since they are both male offspring of the same parents?
 
I understand the argument being made, and it's valid.

Move a single grain of sand on a beach, you set in motion a whole series of subtle changes to the timeline that will have who knows WHAT effect on the future. Those subtle changes will lead to more and more changes that are of increasing significance.

It's possible that someone on the Kelvin was to introduce a Picard to someone they should marry, and because the introduction was never made, the lineage of Captain Picard doesn't happen the way we know.

Could be even more distant. Someone on the Kelvin was supposed to buy something in a shop on their next visit to Earth, and it was the last of its kind in the shop. With them dead, someone else notices the item, takes a few minutes to look it over, and as a result their whole day turns out a little different due to timing, traffic, etc.

What happens to them the rest of that day affects other people around them that they were supposed to interact with in a certain subtle way (bumping into someone while walking down the street, for example). Because they weren't there at that exact moment, they don't have those same interactions, but have new ones with entirely different people. This leads to those people having subtle changes to their day, and to everyone THEY interact with being affected differently in the new timeline...

It builds and builds and builds until Jean Luc is never conceived. Why? Maybe all his ancestors were exactly the same, but on that night...

"Sorry dear. I have a headache."

The incredible odds that on another night the very same DNA pattern would emerge when Picard's mother has hers and her husband's DNA combine inside one of her ova...

It's virtually impossible.

Jean Luc is never born. Instead, two days later, another male child is born, or perhaps a female. Genetically they'd be brother or sister to Captain Picard, but there's one little problem.

They were born in his place and he doesn't exist.

How many times have we heard in scifi time travel stories "Don't change anything or you risk making major changes to the future"?

This is the type of thing that's meant.

Now, imagine all the other changes that could emerge all over Earth, let alone all over the galaxy, due to the "domino effect" resulting from Nero's changing the past.

The ONE chance we have here was already mentioned by someone above. It's a fantastic concept, but since this is science fiction, it's worth mentioning.

What if time itself still carries a roadmap of sorts, and insists on going on the way it did before?

As a result, all the subtle changes more or less play off and absorb each other, and somehow the result is a history very, VERY similar to the one we already know, with certain differences. (For example, Picard needing to visit with Sarek ELSEWHERE rather than on Vulcan in "Unification", since Vulcan doesn't exist any more.)

A number of fans have pointed out that the COUNTDOWN prequel shows Picard and Data intact after Spock and Nero vanish into the black hole and are thrown back in time. This suggests 24th century Trek was left essentially unchanged, or Nero and Spock went back in time but also ended up in an alternate realilty, a parallel universe, and that the alternate reality is where all future Trek stories may take place.

Either way, Picard and Data were still there, so the TNG era is pretty much the same, or exactly the same.

COUNTDOWN proves it, so that end of things is settled.

Now, someone tell me...

Will Uhura still get a run in her stocking during the period the salt vampire visits the Enterprise? :D
 
Again, there is a very small chance that one of picards parents were killed/ didn't meet spouse/conceive the child on a different day.

Perhaps, if the destruction of the Kelvin was the only thing different in this timeline, but
Vulcan was destroyed too. That's 6 billion people who die, and all their descendants are never born.
that makes the chances of something getting changed so that Jean-luc is conceived just one day earlier or later (It doesn't even have to be a car accident. Parhaps, in the original timeline, Picard's mother had a very boring conversation with a
Vulcan
, which gave her a headache and meant Jean-Luc wasn't conceived until a day later. In the new timeline, the boring conversation wouldn't have happened, she wouldn't have had a headache, and Jean-Luc would've been conceived a day early.

Maybe one of his ancestors was killed/never met their spouse, but it still doesnt' change the fact that in all likelihood there should be little to no difference from timeline to timeline after 100 years or so. It's like saying, what if the titanic would have never sunk, of course some things in our society would have been different, some people would have never existed, but are you saying that the vast majority of us would be different/non existant.

Yes, if the Titanic hadn't sunk, a part of us would've been different, as 6000 (IIRC) people who would've died had lived. However, in the new Star Trek timeline, the number of people who died is
1000000
times more.

And don't say the stupid science crap again, I know how biology works, it's pretty simple stuff overall.

Excuse me? I study biology, so I can assure you, it's not "stupid science crap". Appently you don't know everything about reprodution.
 
Alright, whatever, this is getting ridiculous. The whole grain of sand on the beach is bs. If i drop a handful of sand on the beach, and then the tide takes it into the ocean, does that mean that every grain of sand in the whole ocean is in a new position. NO, it just means that a small amount of the grains of sand have been changed, maybe covered up, but in the end, nothing happens to the vast majority of grains of sand in the whole ocean.
 
Alright, whatever, this is getting ridiculous. The whole grain of sand on the beach is bs. If i drop a handful of sand on the beach, and then the tide takes it into the ocean, does that mean that every grain of sand in the whole ocean is in a new position. NO, it just means that a small amount of the grains of sand have been changed, maybe covered up, but in the end, nothing happens to the vast majority of grains of sand in the whole ocean.
Yes, a small change would have little effect. However, the changes in the timeline in Trek XI are pretty huge. Also, any change made will spawn more changes, which would spawn more changes, meaning the effect will increase over time, and it'll take 47 more years of cumulative changes before Picard is born.

Though you are right that this whole debate is pretty pointless. If the new timeline reaches the 24th century, there will obviously be a Jean-Luc Picard. Because it's a fictional universe. However, in reality even minor changes would have major effects in a century.
 
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