• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Questions I've Always Had About Star Wars

tomalak301

Fleet Admiral
Premium Member
I would probably call myself a basic casual fan of the franchise. I've seen the movies, that's about as much of Star Wars as I know.

Because of that, there's always been two questions about it that I've wondered about.

1) Who discovered The Force and when was it discovered. Was it a Jedi or a Sith Lord. I have to imagine whoever was the first to use the force would have the ultimate power, being able to lift things with your mind and all.

2) When it says in a Long Ago in a Galaxy far far away, I wonder when that was in relation to our time. I get it's fantastical and it probably doesn't matter, but I've never really understood the passage of time in Star Wars. Maybe I will see Clone Wars or Star Wars Rebels if they fill in the gaps, but I'm always interested in Time when it comes to Sci Fi series (If things take place in the future, how long into the future, I mean we just had Back to the Future Day and I got excited) but in Star Wars it feels like time doesn't matter, yet if we assume Luke was like 18 when he started learning about the Force, than it was that period of time between Revenge of the Sith and New Hope.
 
1. If this has ever been revealed, it is in EU material that Disney/Lucasfilm has de-canon-ized, and so isn't relevant. I don't believe it has, anyway, though.

2. Since Andromeda, our closest galactic neighbor, is more than two and a half million light years away, that's still pretty far, far. And "a long time ago" isn't really clear, either - and again, as far as I know, nothing has ever tried to nail this down in the EU.

So, sorry, but there's no real answers to these questions. At least, not yet. Disney has a new trilogy, a cartoon series, and several other movies coming up, too, that we can study for hints as we go. :)
 
1. If this has ever been revealed, it is in EU material that Disney/Lucasfilm has de-canon-ized, and so isn't relevant. I don't believe it has, anyway, though.

2. Since Andromeda, our closest galactic neighbor, is more than two and a half million light years away, that's still pretty far, far. And "a long time ago" isn't really clear, either - and again, as far as I know, nothing has ever tried to nail this down in the EU.

So, sorry, but there's no real answers to these questions. At least, not yet. Disney has a new trilogy, a cartoon series, and several other movies coming up, too, that we can study for hints as we go. :)

I hope they do actually. It's a shame none of the movies has ever gotten into this. That would have been something interesting for the prequel trilogy to cover.
 
I hope they do actually. It's a shame none of the movies has ever gotten into this. That would have been something interesting for the prequel trilogy to cover.
Would it, though? I really don't feel like it would. I'm satisfied to take Lucas's "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." as a sort of "Once upon a time..." The point is, not here, not now - some other time, someplace magical.

The only reasons I *might* want to know would be if either a. there was a crossover with another fictional property that IS defined in time and space for us, or b. the story ends up actually involving something in OUR solar system somehow. (Which, to be fair, there ARE possibly members of ET's people in the Senate in the PT - but it isn't enough for me to be overly concerned about. Could have been a thousand years ago, or billions, and maybe his species just lasted that long, or maybe that's not even his species but just looks identical by evolution operating on the form-follows-function principle.)
 
I hope they do actually. It's a shame none of the movies has ever gotten into this. That would have been something interesting for the prequel trilogy to cover.
Would it, though? I really don't feel like it would. I'm satisfied to take Lucas's "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." as a sort of "Once upon a time..." The point is, not here, not now - some other time, someplace magical.

The only reasons I *might* want to know would be if either a. there was a crossover with another fictional property that IS defined in time and space for us, or b. the story ends up actually involving something in OUR solar system somehow. (Which, to be fair, there ARE possibly members of ET's people in the Senate in the PT - but it isn't enough for me to be overly concerned about. Could have been a thousand years ago, or billions, and maybe his species just lasted that long, or maybe that's not even his species but just looks identical by evolution operating on the form-follows-function principle.)

That would be fine if we were just dealing with the original trilogy but the entire universe and grown a lot since then. It would be great to give this universe an origin story to put some background on this franchise. Of course maybe that's just me and my love for the universe of 24th century trek talking, but I'm not sure if "Once Upon a Time" applies to this universe anymore.
 
Of course maybe that's just me and my love for the universe of 24th century trek talking, but I'm not sure if "Once Upon a Time" applies to this universe anymore.
I assure you, it does: any attempts to try to "science it up", like the whole midichlorians nonsense, have been met with disdain or outright dismissal by the fans - and rightly so. Star Wars isn't *really* sci-fi in the same sense that Star Trek is. I mean, part of it IS Sci-Fi, but deep down it's really Fantasy "skinned" in a Sci-Fi wrap.

(Of course, some would say the same about Trek really being driven by character development and social issues, and Sci-Fi is just the backdrop - but even if true, the Sci-Fi "wrap" is considerably thicker for ST than for SW. ;) )
 
I think the opening text "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away" is so perfectly vague and distant, setting us in the right place, time and even frame of mind that we should be in using as few words as possible. If people want to know when and where this all happens, it is a perfect response.. and at the same time, for other people, it is telling them that this is a fairy tale, much like how most fairy tales start with "once upon a time."

It is a masterful way to start the story.
 
The lack of any connection to Earth in time or space is part of what defines Star Wars.
 
The lack of any connection to Earth in time or space is part of what defines Star Wars.
Exactly.

Which makes the ETs in the Senate and the astromech droid in the debris field near Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 both fairly awkward... IF one takes them as anything *other* than cute little Easter eggs. Which they really probably shouldn't. :)
 
The lack of any connection to Earth in time or space is part of what defines Star Wars.

It doesn't need to be a connection to earth (And I agree, I like the fact that it isn't) but time does still exist, and I would say matters, in this universe.
 
^But to define where and when it takes place from our perspective is tying it to Earth.

As for Easter eggs...let's not forget 3PO and R2 in the Well of Souls!
 
2) When it says in a Long Ago in a Galaxy far far away, I wonder when that was in relation to our time. I get it's fantastical and it probably doesn't matter, but I've never really understood the passage of time in Star Wars.

I always assumed the humans in Star Wars aren't actually humans. If we received the radio tales of adventures that happened a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, the first thing we would do when translating them into English would be to translate the storyteller's species into humans. That's how far I think Star Wars takes place.
 
1. If this has ever been revealed, it is in EU material that Disney/Lucasfilm has de-canon-ized, and so isn't relevant. I don't believe it has, anyway, though.

There was a storyline in The Clone Wars (which is still considered canonical) that revealed the planet that was the "origin" of the Force or something like that.


2. Since Andromeda, our closest galactic neighbor, is more than two and a half million light years away, that's still pretty far, far.

This is a common misconception. There are a couple of dozen irregular or elliptical dwarf galaxies that are closer to the Milky Way, the most famous (and two of the closest) being the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds. Those and about ten others are satellite galaxies of the Milky Way itself. Andromeda is simply the closest large spiral galaxy like our own, one of the three spirals in the Local Group.



I'm satisfied to take Lucas's "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." as a sort of "Once upon a time..." The point is, not here, not now - some other time, someplace magical.

Exactly. It's a riff on the classic fairy-tale opening, "A long time ago in a land far, far away." It's a blatant, up-front declaration that Star Wars is a fairy tale, a fantasy adventure for the Space Age. There's a popular misconception that SW is science fiction, but George Lucas has always described it as space fantasy. One could also link it to the old "sword-and-planet" genre, stories that transposed sword-and-sorcery tropes to fanciful alien worlds -- like Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars and Venus novels, or like Flash Gordon. It was Lucas's failure to get the movie rights to Flash Gordon that led him to create Star Wars as a substitute.


The only reasons I *might* want to know would be if either a. there was a crossover with another fictional property that IS defined in time and space for us, or b. the story ends up actually involving something in OUR solar system somehow.

I think there was once an apocryphal comic-book story where Indiana Jones found the ancient wreckage of the Millennium Falcon.



I assure you, it does: any attempts to try to "science it up", like the whole midichlorians nonsense, have been met with disdain or outright dismissal by the fans - and rightly so.

Not universally. I actually rather liked the midi-chlorian idea. It was the one genuinely clever and fresh idea in the prequels. It was clearly drawing an analogy with mitochondria, which are amazing in their own right. Mitochondria are symbiotic microorganisms that inhabit our cells -- originally separate life forms, with their own DNA, but utterly integral to our cell metabolism because they generate the energy our cells need to function. Midi-chlorians are a clever analogy to that -- independent organisms that create living beings' connection with the Force. Life forms in SW depend on them as a source of spiritual energy just as life forms in reality depend on mitochondria as a source of chemical energy.

I don't see that as "contaminating" the fantasy with science, because it's a Western assumption that the physical and the spiritual are mutually exclusive realms, and Lucas was influenced more by Eastern philosophy in which they're aspects of the same thing. So midi-chlorians as a spiritual analogy for something that's more scientific in our reality is actually quite an imaginative idea, a distinctive take on spirituality that could've been quite interesting to explore if it had been used as more than just an incidental plot beat.


(Of course, some would say the same about Trek really being driven by character development and social issues, and Sci-Fi is just the backdrop - but even if true, the Sci-Fi "wrap" is considerably thicker for ST than for SW. ;) )

Gene Roddenberry always wanted Star Trek to be grounded in plausible science. In developing ST, he consulted extensively with scientists, engineers, and think tanks to help him construct a believable future. He often ignored their advice for the sake of dramatic effect -- which is the prerogative of a science fiction writer, because telling an entertaining story comes first -- but he was one of the very, very few SFTV producers who's ever even tried to ground his work in science. Most of his successors at the helm of ST have been much sloppier about the science, but he always tried to keep it grounded, even if he didn't always succeed. He also recruited a large number of respected science fiction writers to work on the show -- another practice that wasn't continued by his successors.
 
1. If this has ever been revealed, it is in EU material that Disney/Lucasfilm has de-canon-ized, and so isn't relevant. I don't believe it has, anyway, though.

2. Since Andromeda, our closest galactic neighbor, is more than two and a half million light years away, that's still pretty far, far. And "a long time ago" isn't really clear, either - and again, as far as I know, nothing has ever tried to nail this down in the EU.

So, sorry, but there's no real answers to these questions. At least, not yet. Disney has a new trilogy, a cartoon series, and several other movies coming up, too, that we can study for hints as we go. :)

In terms of "Long time ago,..." it's relative in time to the story construct of the Saga. It's not necessarily "our" past, but it's the past of the Star Wars galaxy, where that is on "our" timeline doesn't matter. What matters is think of it as a old storyteller telling the story at some distant point in the future of the Star Wars galaxy.

Well one of the scrape EU ideals (thank the force) was that the Star Wars galaxy was colonized by humans from our Earth in the far future.

The secondary storyline, told through excerpts from a document called The Human Exodus, traces the origins of the Human species to a lost expedition from 25th century Earth. It also makes references to George Lucas's previous films, American Graffiti and THX 1138.
 
any attempts to try to "science it up", like the whole midichlorians nonsense, have been met with disdain or outright dismissal by the fans

By some fans, not others. It's just that those fans seem to think, for some reason, that they speak for everyone. But not everyone reacts to a saga featuring things like robots, lasers, alien life, and interplanetary travel by going "They better not science this up." Are we to assume that science had no role in the development of the technology we see in SW? That there are no engineers or scientists to be found anywhere in that galaxy? That looking at something in the GFFA under a microscope is somehow pointless because "fantasy"?

Midichlorians are just the details behind something that was already an irrevocable part of SW back in the 1980s. They are what you find when you look under the hood. They are the reason for something. In reality, things happen for a reason, not "just because". That's how the real world works, and by extension that's also how a fictional universe with any degree of intended verisimilitude should work. Not everyone wants to be a mechanic, but someone has to fix the car. Someone has to know how the machine, or the universe, works. That's the role of science.

Star Wars isn't *really* sci-fi in the same sense that Star Trek is.

Again, this is a narrative relentlessly pushed by certain people, but that doesn't necessarily make it all that accurate. There is often just as much fantasy in Star Trek and its pseudoscience. Or to put it another way, the famous categories don't have to be seen as mutually exclusive.

Christopher said:
There was a storyline in The Clone Wars (which is still considered canonical) that revealed the planet that was the "origin" of the Force or something like that.

The planet was said to be the birthplace of midichlorians.
 
In terms of "Long time ago,..." it's relative in time to the story construct of the Saga. It's not necessarily "our" past, but it's the past of the Star Wars galaxy, where that is on "our" timeline doesn't matter. What matters is think of it as a old storyteller telling the story at some distant point in the future of the Star Wars galaxy.

I seem to recall the original film's novelization (ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster under Lucas's name) presenting the tale as an excerpt from The Journal of the Whills. I may have read that said journal was one of the early ideas of Lucas's that fell by the wayside.
 
1) Who discovered The Force and when was it discovered. Was it a Jedi or a Sith Lord. I have to imagine whoever was the first to use the force would have the ultimate power, being able to lift things with your mind and all
The Force is more than just a telekinetic ability, it's a state of being that allows them to tap into the energy of the universe, to know a great tragedy has occurred, like Alderaan, or that someone you know is near, to see outside your own perceptions of time & existence

As to the "long time ago" preamble. It's perfectly ambiguous. It sufficiently removes the events from the viewers' base of reference, such that no preconceptions can burden it, but also leaves open the potential of still being relevant & connected. Why use the word galaxy otherwise? To give the suggestion that we all may still inhabit the same universe. Hell, it's a story of Jedi, who are masters of the universe, this universe, that the little E.T guys could exist in, both now, here, & then, there

The phrase also serves internally to the story, to reflect the fabled nature of it. That single line may be the most brilliant thing about Star Wars, IMHO.

Incidentally, I'm of the rather fantastic opinion that E.T, himself is a user of the force, & potentially a Jedi in his own right. Displays telekinesis, has empathic powers shared with Elliot, & recognizes Yoda, from a child's costume (at least one could interpret it that way) kind of makes you wonder if Jedi can heal like E.T. too. lol
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top