Questions about Reliant design, where is the Nav Dish?

[blssdwlf]

In "The Outrageous Okona", Picard identifies the whole system as "navigation shields" suggesting all-around coverage rather than mention the main navigational deflector which would suggest the laser ship could just fly out of the E-D's forward arc and attack them.

Also, in "The Outcast", the shuttle they were in had a "navigational deflector". Did it have a dish as well?

And in the Voyager episode where it was said there "navigational deflector" was down, does that mean the main dish or the entire all-around protection?

I think if the "navigational deflector" is mentioned without the "main" part we could just say that it's the whole system of shields that surround the ship. The tie-in to the dish might just be a deflector bolt-on that some long-range sensor systems uses to clear out as much particle interference in the sensor's path, IMHO

 

[YARN]

How many alien ships have we seen with little antenna dishes in front?

Where is the deflector hiding on a D7 or Romulan Bird of Prey?

Warp technology is allegedly a universal discovery, so if a navigational deflector is a need for Starfleet ships, it would seem to be a necessity for alien ships too. And yet the evidence is not there.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

In "The Outrageous Okona", Picard identifies the whole system as "navigation shields" suggesting all-around coverage rather than mention the main navigational deflector which would suggest the laser ship could just fly out of the E-D's forward arc and attack them.

Also, in "The Outcast", the shuttle they were in had a "navigational deflector". Did it have a dish as well?

And in the Voyager episode where it was said there "navigational deflector" was down, does that mean the main dish or the entire all-around protection?

I think if the "navigational deflector" is mentioned without the "main" part we could just say that it's the whole system of shields that surround the ship. The tie-in to the dish might just be a deflector bolt-on that some long-range sensor systems uses to clear out as much particle interference in the sensor's path, IMHO

That's pretty good. It could increase the sensor resolution

 

[Timo]

Or simply response time. Perhaps the only way to get realtime information from distant targets is to pack the outgoing sensor beam in a FTL sheath of some sort, and then bounce it off the distant target. And a FTL sheath is already in use by the deflector beam which has to sweep the path of the ship even at FTL speeds - so some big exploration ships combine the sweeping device (which is so compact it's almost invisible) and an array of sensors (which often include a big dish) and have both of them use the same FTL sheathing generator.

Sweeping the sensor path clear is a cool idea, but a bit destructive for our gentle and well-mannered Federation scientific heroes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

How many alien ships have we seen with little antenna dishes in front?

Where is the deflector hiding on a D7 or Romulan Bird of Prey?

Warp technology is allegedly a universal discovery, so if a navigational deflector is a need for Starfleet ships, it would seem to be a necessity for alien ships too. And yet the evidence is not there.

Not only that, but in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Balance of Terror" we see the Enterprise using reverse maneuvers, in essence flying backwards at both sublight and warp speeds. The the dish is a forward-facing protective energy sweep of some sort, it isn't going to do any good when the ship is flying backwards.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The Franz Joseph blueprints refer to the grid-lines on the saucer as "Deflector Shield Grid" and the dish as "Main Sensor & Navigational Deflector".

Not sure if that helps.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Or simply response time. Perhaps the only way to get realtime information from distant targets is to pack the outgoing sensor beam in a FTL sheath of some sort, and then bounce it off the distant target. And a FTL sheath is already in use by the deflector beam which has to sweep the path of the ship even at FTL speeds - so some big exploration ships combine the sweeping device (which is so compact it's almost invisible) and an array of sensors (which often include a big dish) and have both of them use the same FTL sheathing generator.

I have always thought that the deflector beam itself was being used as a sensor device. We have numerous lines in TOS where Sulu or Spock refers to the deflectors THEMSELVES registering contact with something (in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," for instance, Spock says "Deflectors say there's something there, sensors say there isn't."). This is probably because changes in subspace fields propagate at much greater than the speed of light, so you can tell instantly if your deflectors are reacting to something, even if you can't see it.

Sweeping the sensor path clear is a cool idea, but a bit destructive for our gentle and well-mannered Federation scientific heroes.

In "The Cage" their deflectors react to the modulated radio signal as if it were a physical object (the signal was apparently DESIGNED to have this effect to draw attention to itself). One of the helmsman says something like "The meteorite beam isn't stopping it, Sir." And this several seconds before the signal even reached them, meaning the radio signal had to be reacting to the deflector beam at least several million kilometers away.

I figure the navigational deflector is a low-power beam that reaches out and "feels" in space in front of the ship and then adds power as needed when it encounters something massive. It's like a blind man walking down the street tapping a white cane in front of him; when he touches something that feels like a rock or a small animal, he grabs the cane with BOTH hands and pushes the obstacle aside. If the obstacle doesn't move, then HE moves aside.

 

[Timo]

Excellent points there. Also interesting is the use of plural so often in connection with the deflectors, possibly suggesting diversity of form and function.

Perhaps the ability to feel forward is the one lost when your navigational deflector is of a dish-less type? We don't get those sensing references with runabouts or Mirandas...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BlackFire3]

i'm just taking a guess here, but perhaps the "deflector dish" (used for warp travel expressively) on the reliant is the triangular object that sits between the torpedo launchers on the pod.

admittingly i have no basis for this, but it's all i can think of.

 

[Forbin]

Could be!

 

[Timo]

...In that case, one would wonder what's going on with those Miranda variants that omit the pod.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ngc7293]

I have a picture of The Knox Class which I got from Gilso Star Trek Schematics. It gives a name for that blue thing at the back of the ship and calls it the Impulse Deflector Crystal. It almost makes sense because it is near the impulse engines, but it is the only ship that seems to use such a thing.

Is it possible that these blue things (which look a lot like a Deflector ) perform multiple tasks? or do they sit too far back on the ship? If this "artifact" was up to the task it would be perfect because it is on all versions of the Miranda classes.

 

[Forbin]

I have a picture of The Knox Class which I got from Gilso Star Trek Schematics. It gives a name for that blue thing at the back of the ship and calls it the Impulse Deflector Crystal. It almost makes sense because it is near the impulse engines, but it is the only ship that seems to use such a thing.

Is it possible that these blue things (which look a lot like a Deflector ) perform multiple tasks? or do they sit too far back on the ship? If this "artifact" was up to the task it would be perfect because it is on all versions of the Miranda classes.

The Enterprise refit has the same crystal, so, nope.
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/trek/md_enta-05.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0887.jpg

 

[Timo]

The crystal is present in various ships, but seems to be a "cyclic" thing: it's part and parcel of almost every ENT starship, and almost every ship of the TOS movie era, but is absent from TOS and from TNG. It makes occasional cameo appearances in DS9 (e.g. the Defiant seems to have eight of the things, and her shuttle has one as well), but isn't visible on the VOY hero ship.

Impulse Deflection Crystal is a commonly used backstage name/description from the 1980s. On the other hand, the blue thing in NX-01 was more recently given a backstage description of having something to do with warp field stabilizing. It would be pretty simple to combine the two, while pointing out that a warp field can be used to lower the inertia of an object within the field: perhaps a ship with such a crystal gets extra impulse capabilities from manipulating its warp field?

The Knox and various other fan ships related to the original Reliant are certainly interesting variations on a theme. In Todd Guenther's Ships of the Star Fleet, they are said to feature deflector devices atop their shuttlebays, as part of the jumble of greeblies there. All the Miranda variants have such a jumble, and all of them could be argued to have a deflector unit there, even if the basic Reliant design doesn't feature the specific transverse block that the book associates with the "Wide Angle Deflector Emitter" system.

Timo Saloniemi