Question for Fellow Comcast Customers (TV)

[Frontier]

So just a question for some of my fellow Comcast customers... figured someone here must know the answer, be able to explain this to me...

So the other year, the whole big "digital transition" hub-bub. We had to get these "adapter" boxes for our TVs. The main TV of the house has a digital one, big boxy thing, larger than our blu-ray or DVD player (yes, we have both, don't ask). It lets us get our digital cable signal, no problemo, on said main TV.

For the other TVs in the house, we get a smaller, lesser, desk calendar size "adapter" box. Now one of our TVs is an older 1995 tube-type, so it makes sense. But another is a new flat screen. So why am I paying for digital cable and not getting said digital cable on all TVs capable?

Same time, another Q: we only have 3 "boxes" - big one and two small adapters - but we have 5 TVs in the house. We'd love to have them all hooked up, but without the "adapter" boxes, it's no go. Can we buy those boxes ourselves rather than from Comcast? Cause frankly they're already charging too much, and I already feel ripped off over the digital cable thing, so I don't want to ask them for extra boxes and see my bill shoot up more.

Thanks!

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

What did Comcast say when you asked them?

 

[Frontier]

That's just it -- I don't want to ask them, with their corporate mindset of lies and half-truths and what not, before I've asked people I can actually believe the answers of.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I didn't think you needed the converter if you had cable or satellite. Their box is a converter (?)

 

[Frontier]

Well, when the switch happened, we where told (by them) that we needed said boxes if we where to get *any* cable signal. I've even tried plugging the TV directly into the coax jack, and nada, nothing comes through, old or new tv.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I had a digital TV by then, so what do I know.

 

[marillion]

Ok, two of my buddies are Comcast Cable guys, so that makes me expertly qualified... to call them anytime I have issues...

I'm trying to understand. Is this correct?
1. You are a comcast subscriber and have cable set up for one tv?
2. You only have converter boxes purchased for the digital switchover last year for the other tv's?

If your other tvs were hooked up to cable (100+ channels) via cable boxes, you didn't need to buy an additional converter box. Some tvs, prior to the switchover, were able to pick up air signals, but now they are not since the signals are transmitted digitally. Thus the need for the aftermarket converter boxes.

If you were just receiving a few channels (less than 20 usually) with no cable or converter box on your other tvs, you likely get nothing now, especially on the flat screen tv, which, depending on when you bought it, doesn't have a built in antenna.

Your best bet, I'm sorry to say, is to call comcast and talk to them about it. You do not need to buy anything from them to get just basic local channels and a few others like CW, religeous programing and Univison. You can go to walmart or target and get a converter box and antenna and set it up yourself.

If you want the full load of cable channels, you'll have to add them to your current comacast account.

hope I haven't added to the confusion.

 

[propita]

We had those boxes for one day and switched to directv.

I couldn’t eliminate channels I didn’t want to watch from my channel surfing--which could go in only one direction. When we returned all the boxes, we were told they were “older versions.” Why would I be given older versions? F**k comcast. They can’t even get their website to update more than once a month for payments (we still have comcast internet--nothing else available). I like directv more.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Digital converter boxes are needed if your TV is not capable of receiving digital signals on its own. While it's true all over-the-air signals went digital last year (I think?), neither Comcast nor any other cable company were compelled to go digital.

What's going on here is mixing up two different things: cable service and over-the-air (OTA) broadcasts. OTA is 100% digital now and has no monthly fees. You just have to buy a converter box for each TV. But this is only necessary if the TV is not hooked up to cable service.

If the TV is on cable service, then you should be getting all your channels through Comcast, which may require you to have a digital cable box. I think Comcast is phasing out their analog cable channels (if they haven't done so already), so you may not pick up anything if you just plug the cable wire directly into your TV.

It's important not to confuse the two. OTA broadcasts have nothing to do with Comcast.

 

[melancholymecha]

what bugs me is that i cant get any local hdtv channels anymore on my flat screen tv.
I have moved recenlty & before I had comcast basic & expanded service that I got through the cable directly connected to the back of my flat screen, I didint need a converter box... when i moved & I had to have my service transfered they made me use the boxes & a service guy came and set it up, one big box & the two smaller boxes for the rooms. But now I cant get the hdtv channels I used to get. I was thinking of disconnecting the adapter box from one of the tvs & seeing if I can just hook up the cable directly to the tv myself like it used to be but Im worried they might have disconnected the signal or set up the tv in a way so that the adapter cant be switched back oon or it needs some special code only the service guys know. I miss my free hdtv channels.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

You should still be able to get free HD channels from over-the-air transmissions. You just need a TV with a digital tuner (built-in or via a converter box) and an antenna. They'll be your local major network affiliates: ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW. Unless you live out in the boonies they are likely transmitting an HD signal.

 

[RobertVA]

Note that those converter boxes eligible for that US government subsidy program aren't at all compatible with the digital signals on a cable system. The intervals between cable frequencies are different than the intervals for OTA (Over The Air - direct from the broadcaster via your antenna). Furthermore, most cable companies encrypt channels that aren't in their least expensive programming tier to encourage subscribers to pay for the more expensive tiers. Converters with ANY type of high definition output not only weren't eligible for the subsidy, they are much more expensive than the eligible converters without the subsidy and harder to locate.

To receive those digital channels on the cable company's economy/basic tier you would need a TV described as having ATSC-QAM compatibility. The cable company would rather you rent a converter from them and many don't mind changing the frequencies around at odd intervals making it necessary for subscribers using their QAM compatible tuners to perform a new channel scan.

For a while electronic manufacturer's were making TVs that could tune analog NTSC signals but had no built in compatibility with with either over the air digital ATSC signals or digital cable ATSC-QAM signals. Those TVs require a rental converter for digital cable or digital tuner for over the air broadcasts (with antenna). Since then US regulations require the ATSC tuner in all new TVs manufactured for the US market that have an analog NTSC tuner. However, there might be a few old NTSC only TVs in the supply chain.

A few TVs have slots for a card that allows them to decrypt the channels not in the cable company's economy tier. The cards have to be rented from the cable company, who in turn remotely activate the card to decrypt the channels you are paying for. Each card has a unique ID code so the cable company can control which cards operate with which channels. Unfortunately the cards don't support features like the cable company's on screen programming guide, pay per view via the remote or on demand programming.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Very informative, RobertVA. I didn't know a lot of that stuff.

 

[melancholymecha]

well Im confused... l have to dig out my tv's manual(to check for that ATSC-QAM compatibility) but all i know is it used to recieve the local hdtv channels instantly, I didnt need to do a thing & since getting the adapter boxes I cant get them. So if I want to get the free hdtv channels I have to pay Comcast to let me see them?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

No, if you want free HDTV channels from local network affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.) you need to get an HD-capable digital converter box for your TV and you need to have a suitable antenna.

Beyond that, there is nothing you can get "free" from Comcast. You would have to sign up for a package, which may or may not include HD channels.

 

[Sheep]

Beyond that, there is nothing you can get "free" from Comcast. You would have to sign up for a package, which may or may not include HD channels.

That's not entirely true. By law (for now, anyway), the cable companies are required to carry broadcast channels on their lines unencrypted (and accessible without a converter box). Basically, if you have any service from Comcast, you have the "free" broadcast networks piped in too. I subscribe to Comcast only for internet and split the cable line to run into a TV tuner on my PC so I can record programs and watch them through my 360. I also tried plugging in the cable directly to my HDTV and that worked too--I was able to get all my local channels in HD.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Beyond that, there is nothing you can get "free" from Comcast. You would have to sign up for a package, which may or may not include HD channels.

That's not entirely true. By law (for now, anyway), the cable companies are required to carry broadcast channels on their lines unencrypted (and accessible without a converter box). Basically, if you have any service from Comcast, you have the "free" broadcast networks piped in too. I subscribe to Comcast only for internet and split the cable line to run into a TV tuner on my PC so I can record programs and watch them through my 360. I also tried plugging in the cable directly to my HDTV and that worked too--I was able to get all my local channels in HD.

Really? When did that happen? I was totally not aware.

 

[Sheep]

Beyond that, there is nothing you can get "free" from Comcast. You would have to sign up for a package, which may or may not include HD channels.

That's not entirely true. By law (for now, anyway), the cable companies are required to carry broadcast channels on their lines unencrypted (and accessible without a converter box). Basically, if you have any service from Comcast, you have the "free" broadcast networks piped in too. I subscribe to Comcast only for internet and split the cable line to run into a TV tuner on my PC so I can record programs and watch them through my 360. I also tried plugging in the cable directly to my HDTV and that worked too--I was able to get all my local channels in HD.

Really? When did that happen? I was totally not aware.

I discovered this after cutting the cable cord last year. I always planned to keep my internet service so a one-time investment in a TV tuner for my PC along with the free broadcast signal that comes in through the same cable as my internet service meant I had access to the broadcast networks which covers my TV viewing needs quite well.

The cable companies are pushing to get rid of this loophole and encrypt the signal even for the broadcast networks. Doing so would push at least a few people to subscribe to the lowest tier to get basic channels or deal with an OTA antenna which can be an iffy proposition at best. Obviously I'm hoping the government doesn't bow to corporate pressures and maintains the status quo.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

That's not entirely true. By law (for now, anyway), the cable companies are required to carry broadcast channels on their lines unencrypted (and accessible without a converter box). Basically, if you have any service from Comcast, you have the "free" broadcast networks piped in too. I subscribe to Comcast only for internet and split the cable line to run into a TV tuner on my PC so I can record programs and watch them through my 360. I also tried plugging in the cable directly to my HDTV and that worked too--I was able to get all my local channels in HD.

Really? When did that happen? I was totally not aware.

I discovered this after cutting the cable cord last year. I always planned to keep my internet service so a one-time investment in a TV tuner for my PC along with the free broadcast signal that comes in through the same cable as my internet service meant I had access to the broadcast networks which covers my TV viewing needs quite well.

The cable companies are pushing to get rid of this loophole and encrypt the signal even for the broadcast networks. Doing so would push at least a few people to subscribe to the lowest tier to get basic channels or deal with an OTA antenna which can be an iffy proposition at best. Obviously I'm hoping the government doesn't bow to corporate pressures and maintains the status quo.

Ah, I don't think you're talking about something that's legally mandated. Rather, it takes effort on the part of the cable company to filter out the analog signal when they turn on your cable Internet. They have to attach a notch filter (I think) at the drop in order to deny you the analog channels, so they often don't even bother, going on the assumption that most people won't realize they're getting analog cable channels through that wire if they haven't subscribed to cable TV.

In the long run, it's much less hassle for the cable companies to switch their signals over to 100% digital so you can't see anything without a cable box.

 

[Sheep]

Ah, I don't think you're talking about something that's legally mandated. Rather, it takes effort on the part of the cable company to filter out the analog signal when they turn on your cable Internet. They have to attach a notch filter (I think) at the drop in order to deny you the analog channels, so they often don't even bother, going on the assumption that most people won't realize they're getting analog cable channels through that wire if they haven't subscribed to cable TV.

Back when I was researching all this I recall reading that it was indeed legally mandated, with television being a form of mass communication in the event of emergencies and that sort of justification. My Google-fu is failing miserably now to find a source but I'll see what I can dig up.

EDIT: This explanation seems to shed some light on the issue:

It has nothing to do with "over the air". The misconception that cable must carry a signal that you can receive with an antenna has been a falsehood for the last 30 years. It is up to the station to file and successfully meet the criteria to obtain a "must carry" license within it's DMA which is more than how far the TV signal travels. Only "must carry" channels are forced on cable and only these channels will be forced into "clear QAM" come February 17, 2009. CBS's Les Moonves among others are appalled that their HD signal may be "freely" carried on cable. If they begin to charge for carriage, they are no longer "must carry" and thus you can bet your butt they won't be on Comcast's clear-QAM. For now, NO REGULATIONS apply to digital carriage (ATSC stations) and is strongly urged to "be friendly with negotiations" by the FCC as ruled in Florida when the first ATSC only (digital) channel came on the air in 2003. The public broadcasters are currently fighting the PBS and ION's of the country to allow "must carry" to only apply to one stream within a channel. So CBS affiliates can file for "must carry" on their SD streams and then charge what they want for their HD streams. The FCC has not ruled either way, not yet defined the difference between "stream" and "channel". In May, the FCC solidified that "must carry" will be "clear QAM", however.

From here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20932938-Local-HD-channels-blocked-