I seem to remember that the Defiant was pretty tough. If memory serves me correctly, that little ship was capable of inflicting major damage from its guns. But what made the pulse canons so strong? And why didn't a larger ship like a Galaxy have the same kind of weaponry? Was it a new technology and therefore would be installed on future starships?
Question about the Defiant and its weapons
- Thread starter Luckyflux
- Start date
My guess is bang-for-the-buck. Pulse phasers are very effective but at shorter ranges. Galaxy-class fought from farther distances thereby not needing pulse-type phasers
The Defiant could inflict some serious hurt w/those phasers but you'll notice its always at close range.
Doubt if it could slug it out w/a Dominion Cruiser from afar it'd have to get in close zap it and hope those polarion phasers don't lock in too many times.
If the Defiant wanted to keep a distance it would usually lauch it Quantum Torps.
Those are those same weapons that destroyed a Breen ship on first launch.
The Defiant could inflict some serious hurt w/those phasers but you'll notice its always at close range.
Doubt if it could slug it out w/a Dominion Cruiser from afar it'd have to get in close zap it and hope those polarion phasers don't lock in too many times.
If the Defiant wanted to keep a distance it would usually lauch it Quantum Torps.
Those are those same weapons that destroyed a Breen ship on first launch.
Also the pulse phaser only shot straight forwards, unlike the omni-directional phaser strips.
According to the DS9 Tech Manual, the pulse phaser has an improved firing system in which the energy pulses are not discharged immediately, as is the case in a normal phaser beam, but instead build up for several seconds. The result is a pulsed wave, like the slices of an onion. Having that little delay in the cycle allows you to build up more power in a shot than you'd have in a beam, and inflict the type of damage the Defiant does.
The drawback is that because you're forcing more power into the pulsed blast, it has less range than a traditional phaser bank. The "slices" dissipate much quicker than the beam does. It seems to be a relatively new technology, so it seems logical that other ships like the Galaxy might be refitted in the future.
The drawback is that because you're forcing more power into the pulsed blast, it has less range than a traditional phaser bank. The "slices" dissipate much quicker than the beam does. It seems to be a relatively new technology, so it seems logical that other ships like the Galaxy might be refitted in the future.
...Or at least she had two things that looked completely different from the Defiant cannon. 
We get but a single indication that the guns of the Defiant would be more powerful than those of the Galaxy: they blow up the small Jem'Hadar battlebugs when the big beams of the Odyssey failed to do the same. Yet later on, in the big battles, any random Starfleet vessel can fire standard beams to destroy a battlebug. So the pulse guns might not be all that advantageous after all.
It should be noted that the pulse guns were not an anti-Dominion weapon - they were an anti-Borg one, installed on the Defiant long before the Feds even knew of the existence of the wormhole. It would be natural to use short pulses against the Borg, altering the specs of the beam between each pulse to confound the Borg adaptation routine. It would then be just a coincidence that the pulse guns happened to be useful against the Jem'Hadar. For all we know, the guns would have been even more useful if they didn't pulse, but Sisko or O'Brien couldn't correct that shortcoming after the guns had already been installed.
Timo Saloniemi
We get but a single indication that the guns of the Defiant would be more powerful than those of the Galaxy: they blow up the small Jem'Hadar battlebugs when the big beams of the Odyssey failed to do the same. Yet later on, in the big battles, any random Starfleet vessel can fire standard beams to destroy a battlebug. So the pulse guns might not be all that advantageous after all.
It should be noted that the pulse guns were not an anti-Dominion weapon - they were an anti-Borg one, installed on the Defiant long before the Feds even knew of the existence of the wormhole. It would be natural to use short pulses against the Borg, altering the specs of the beam between each pulse to confound the Borg adaptation routine. It would then be just a coincidence that the pulse guns happened to be useful against the Jem'Hadar. For all we know, the guns would have been even more useful if they didn't pulse, but Sisko or O'Brien couldn't correct that shortcoming after the guns had already been installed.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, by that point Starfleet had fought the Jem'Hadar fighters many times, after you've fought them that many times, it's easy to know their weak spots and how to best target your weapons. Not to mention by the time they had the big battles, they had already captured one fighter, they knew them pretty well. When the Odyssey took on the Jem'Hadar, they had no idea what to do.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I think Starfleet should back engineer a Jem'hadar ships Phased polaron beams and upgrade a Defiant class ship with 2 pulsed phased polaron cannons aswell as pulsed phasers so if an unknown alien race decide to have a pop on a Defiant class ship it can penetrate the enemy shields and blast them even more to oblivion. 
If the enemy ship manages to adapt the Defiant can fall back on its trusty pulsed phasers and qunatum torpedos. 
If the enemy ship manages to adapt the Defiant can fall back on its trusty pulsed phasers and qunatum torpedos. 
Fire said:
I think Starfleet should back engineer a Jem'hadar ships Phased polaron beams and upgrade a Defiant class ship with 2 pulsed phased polaron cannons aswell as pulsed phasers so if an unknown alien race decide to have a pop on a Defiant class ship it can penetrate the enemy shields and blast them even more to oblivion.
The writers always pull the non-compatible system bullshit on things like that-"Oh, yeah, the warp drive can't power the phased polaron beam, you need a phased polaronduhickinator or the ship will explode."
But the Breen had access to the Dominion weapons, so whatever problems they might have had are negated with that knowledge.
Well, initially the Breen, being mortal enemies of the Cardassians, would have been enemies of the Dominion as well. So the question of how their shields, armor or other protection handles phased polaron beams is somewhat relevant. 
I wonder whether the Dominion developed the polaron beams specifically as advanced shield-piercers, or whether it was just a lucky coincidence that these standard Gamma weapons worked so well against the standard Alpha shields...
(OTOH, Dominion shields seldom seemed to be anything special, except in "Jem'Hadar" and perhaps "Valiant".)
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder whether the Dominion developed the polaron beams specifically as advanced shield-piercers, or whether it was just a lucky coincidence that these standard Gamma weapons worked so well against the standard Alpha shields...
(OTOH, Dominion shields seldom seemed to be anything special, except in "Jem'Hadar" and perhaps "Valiant".)
Timo Saloniemi
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
The phased polaron beams were likely designed on purpose to penetrate shields, thats why the Dominion were so powerful in the Gamma Quadrant, the Changelings are a very old race and their knowledge over the centurys no doubt allowed them to design the weapon. In the long run shields could no doubt be adapted, but I doubt many races survive long enough to counteract the weapon which is why Weyoun was so surprised when the Federation managed it.
The Defiant on it's own was able to withstand the phase polaron beams when it went up against the bugs for the first time ... which effectively was before they captured the bug.
I would say that because the Defiant incorporated anti-borg systems, that was what gave the Feds ability to defeat Dominions weapons (because it was only after the introduction to the Defiant that SF really began to upgrade their fleet with the new anti-borg systems).
Finding the bug would have merely provided SF with in depth knowledge of Dominion bug ships and technology it incorporated so they could destroy them easier ... along on how to defend against phased polaron beams, but as I said, since the Defiant was already able to repel the beams from penetrating the shields in it's first run when they were looking for the Founders ... I would say that SF merely upgraded their fleets and stations to incorporate the properties of anti-borg shields they developed.
And it wouldn't be far fetched either because SF was rarely upgrading their systems with changes that would actually make a difference until new danger was on their doorstep.
I would say that because the Defiant incorporated anti-borg systems, that was what gave the Feds ability to defeat Dominions weapons (because it was only after the introduction to the Defiant that SF really began to upgrade their fleet with the new anti-borg systems).
Finding the bug would have merely provided SF with in depth knowledge of Dominion bug ships and technology it incorporated so they could destroy them easier ... along on how to defend against phased polaron beams, but as I said, since the Defiant was already able to repel the beams from penetrating the shields in it's first run when they were looking for the Founders ... I would say that SF merely upgraded their fleets and stations to incorporate the properties of anti-borg shields they developed.
And it wouldn't be far fetched either because SF was rarely upgrading their systems with changes that would actually make a difference until new danger was on their doorstep.
"Withstand" would be a relative measure: the Defiant really got the crap kicked out of her faster than the Odyssey did. It's just that she managed to destroy one Jem'Hadar vessel in the process, which is more than the Odyssey managed.
I don't see any evidence that the Defiant was ever able to "repel" phased polaron beams. She just took the pounding well for a ship that small, and oftentimes was invisible enough to avoid getting hit.
Timo Saloniemi
I don't see any evidence that the Defiant was ever able to "repel" phased polaron beams. She just took the pounding well for a ship that small, and oftentimes was invisible enough to avoid getting hit.
Timo Saloniemi
The thing is that from what I am able to recall of 'the Search' is the fact that the Defiants shields did not let the bugs beams through until they were overpowered from continuous pounding.
If I also remember correctly, there was a visual showed of the Defiants shields not allowing the beams through to the hull (of course I could be mistaken).
Let's also take things into perspective here.
The Odyssey was a Galaxy class ship after all which took heavy pounding and would have gotten away had that bug not ram it in 'The Search'.
The Defiant is a much smaller vessel and was going against 3 bugs at the time (for the very first time) with being able to defeat one.
Not to mention the fact as good as O'Brian was, the ship was still temperamental back then and the crew was new to the experimental class of ship that SF didn't even bother to finish properly.
If I also remember correctly, there was a visual showed of the Defiants shields not allowing the beams through to the hull (of course I could be mistaken).
Let's also take things into perspective here.
The Odyssey was a Galaxy class ship after all which took heavy pounding and would have gotten away had that bug not ram it in 'The Search'.
The Defiant is a much smaller vessel and was going against 3 bugs at the time (for the very first time) with being able to defeat one.
Not to mention the fact as good as O'Brian was, the ship was still temperamental back then and the crew was new to the experimental class of ship that SF didn't even bother to finish properly.
Well, the dialogue in "The Search pt I" never really mentions the shields providing actual protection. We just hear Sisko ordering them raised, after which the enemy weapons do their thing and blow up a lot of stuff. The exterior visuals show the beams hitting the hull, so we can rule out bubble shields being effective (but admittedly we can't rule out skintight shields having some protective effect).
When Odo tries to drag Kira to the shuttle, he claims that abandoning ship is the right thing to do because
But do we trust Odo with
a) accurate tech knowledge,
b) accurate tactical knowledge and
b) honesty
on this? I'd not grant him that much leeway, really. It could just as well be that the shields were no better than in the Odyssey fight, and that the armor, the maneuverability, and possibly the Jem'Hadar knowledge that there was a God aboard made all the difference there.
Timo Saloniemi
When Odo tries to drag Kira to the shuttle, he claims that abandoning ship is the right thing to do because
But do we trust Odo with
a) accurate tech knowledge,
b) accurate tactical knowledge and
b) honesty
on this? I'd not grant him that much leeway, really. It could just as well be that the shields were no better than in the Odyssey fight, and that the armor, the maneuverability, and possibly the Jem'Hadar knowledge that there was a God aboard made all the difference there.
Timo Saloniemi
