When they try to blast the doors of the elevator in the rocks to rescue Pike, is that a type of Phase Cannon that they transfered the ships power to it and why did they just focus on the doors? It kinda looked like a version from the Enterpise episode Silent Enemy in which Lt Reed built.
Question about Menagerie or Cage
- Thread starter General_Custer
- Start date
Phase cannons didn't exist during Pike's time, no matter what ENT said. At least they weren't called that.
Even the phasers were lasers.
Somebody help me out. Does the dialog identify this device as a "laser cannon" or not? I don't remember.
As for the device itself, we never saw it again.
Even the phasers were lasers.
Somebody help me out. Does the dialog identify this device as a "laser cannon" or not? I don't remember.
As for the device itself, we never saw it again.
The closed captioning mentions the entry being resistant to "hand lasers" but you're right, it goes no further in describing this weapon.
number6
Vice Admiral
I'm sure that the folks over at ENT had the laser canon from the Cage in mind when they designed the phase canon, in the same way that the shuttlepods are reminiscent of Jefferies original concepts for the TOS shuttlecraft. Those subtle little nods to TOS are one of the things I enjoyed, watching ENT during its original run.
You mean those desperate attempts to pander to the TOS audience by shoehorning in references that really revealed a fundamental lack of understanding of the source material?
here's one:
"Observer effect": having the Organians as the aliens was a "nod" to TOS alright, but they don't really fit with the Organians we know from "Errand of Mercy", it also unnecessarily retcons the Organians from greatly advanced isolationists who are disgusted by the mere presence of lowly humanoids and just want to be left alone,
to spacefaring people that examine the behavior of other races- with ambigous morals to boot.
"Observer effect": having the Organians as the aliens was a "nod" to TOS alright, but they don't really fit with the Organians we know from "Errand of Mercy", it also unnecessarily retcons the Organians from greatly advanced isolationists who are disgusted by the mere presence of lowly humanoids and just want to be left alone,
to spacefaring people that examine the behavior of other races- with ambigous morals to boot.
Some observations about the device they use for attacking the Talosian door:
-Yup, no name is ever given to this piece of equipment.
-The firing visuals are similar to those of Kirk's phaser rifle in the next episode, and dissimilar to the hand lasers. Also, the two-balls-in-row structure is later used by Doug Drexler when he draws phasers in TOS era ship schematics, although these drawings don't usually make it onscreen.
-The device doesn't appear to be very practical as an "artillery piece" - it's got an incredibly clumsy pedestal that does not allow for mobility or use in rough terrain. Instead, it looks like a mining tool. And indeed a mining drill would be a logical choice for trying to penetrate the Talosian stronghold.
-In retrospect, and even without input from ENT, we have every reason to think that phasers were the standard shipboard armament at the time of "The Cage". Kirk refers to having used them at the time against the dikironium cloud in the "Obsession" backstory. And we have no particular reason to think that Pike's ship wasn't armed with phasers, even if his crew carried laser pistols as sidearms.
-Why hit the door rather than the mountaintop? Perhaps they feared they'd cave in the elevator shaft and make it all the harder to get in. Or then they decided the shaft would be lined with the same material as the door, so the door would actually be the weakest point (although it later turned out this wasn't the case).
Timo Saloniemi
-Yup, no name is ever given to this piece of equipment.
-The firing visuals are similar to those of Kirk's phaser rifle in the next episode, and dissimilar to the hand lasers. Also, the two-balls-in-row structure is later used by Doug Drexler when he draws phasers in TOS era ship schematics, although these drawings don't usually make it onscreen.
-The device doesn't appear to be very practical as an "artillery piece" - it's got an incredibly clumsy pedestal that does not allow for mobility or use in rough terrain. Instead, it looks like a mining tool. And indeed a mining drill would be a logical choice for trying to penetrate the Talosian stronghold.
-In retrospect, and even without input from ENT, we have every reason to think that phasers were the standard shipboard armament at the time of "The Cage". Kirk refers to having used them at the time against the dikironium cloud in the "Obsession" backstory. And we have no particular reason to think that Pike's ship wasn't armed with phasers, even if his crew carried laser pistols as sidearms.
-Why hit the door rather than the mountaintop? Perhaps they feared they'd cave in the elevator shaft and make it all the harder to get in. Or then they decided the shaft would be lined with the same material as the door, so the door would actually be the weakest point (although it later turned out this wasn't the case).
Timo Saloniemi
I'm not sure your interpretation of the Organians is correct. They aren't isolationists per say. Nor were they disgusted by humanoids. What they found disgusting was interfering, but The Federation and the Klingons left them no choice. Basically they were the adult who had to step in to stop a couple of squabbling kids from hurting each other. The Organians seemed to know more than a little about both the UFP and the Klingons, even predicting their eventual alliance. The Organians in "Observer Effect" also practiced non-interference at first, but were convinced to change their minds.
ok disgusted may be the wrong expression, but:
from the transcript:
The mere presence of beings like yourselves is intensely painful to us.
they should just have spanked Kor and Kirk into submission.
Seriously, I always hated the name-dropping in ENT. Mainly because it was mostly followed up by a blatant disregard of the original series. I mean it's no accident. Braga has bragged about not having watched TOS, it's known he dislikes the Original series. A good example is "Minefield".
How can we be glad he knew what Romulan ships looked like when he disregarded THE Rommie episode BoT, where it's specifically stated they're not supposed to have cloak in ENT time?
How can I be happy he brings up Pon Farr when he doesn't care it's an uneasy topic and even a secret in TOS, having T'Pol discuss it at the dinner table on Enterprise?
And how should I acknowledge he remembers the Organians, when nothing in the Episode really adds something to what we know about them in TOS, even contradicts it?
And how should I care about him adopting the Warp scale when four days will never bring him to another system at Warp 5, as claimed in the pilot?
Things like those make me angry. If you cannot go all the way to acknowledge the TOS continuity, better not touch it at all.
Thank god they got their senses together in season four.
The Vulcan Arc, The Augments Arc, IAMD, THAT's what I expect from a prequel series, not the occasional name-dropping that's not going to impress nor satisfy TOS fans.
Seriously, I always hated the name-dropping in ENT. Mainly because it was mostly followed up by a blatant disregard of the original series. I mean it's no accident. Braga has bragged about not having watched TOS, it's known he dislikes the Original series. A good example is "Minefield".
How can we be glad he knew what Romulan ships looked like when he disregarded THE Rommie episode BoT, where it's specifically stated they're not supposed to have cloak in ENT time?
How can I be happy he brings up Pon Farr when he doesn't care it's an uneasy topic and even a secret in TOS, having T'Pol discuss it at the dinner table on Enterprise?
And how should I acknowledge he remembers the Organians, when nothing in the Episode really adds something to what we know about them in TOS, even contradicts it?
And how should I care about him adopting the Warp scale when four days will never bring him to another system at Warp 5, as claimed in the pilot?
Things like those make me angry. If you cannot go all the way to acknowledge the TOS continuity, better not touch it at all.
Thank god they got their senses together in season four.
The Vulcan Arc, The Augments Arc, IAMD, THAT's what I expect from a prequel series, not the occasional name-dropping that's not going to impress nor satisfy TOS fans.
They did, by making Kor and Kirk's weapons to hot to hold. "Bad! Bad corporeal children!"
He and other writers were told by Roddenberry not to watch TOS. I don't think Braga bragged about not watching TOS, nor do I recall him stating he disliked it. The cloak in "Minefield" is the only real serious continuity error in ENT. No excuse for that. Sloppy writing. Maybe that's why the writer/producer (John Shiban) wasn't asked back the next season.
I doubt that something like Pon Farr was totally unknown in the 200 years between first contact and TOS. Though the Vulcans may have used their influence to keep it as secretive as possible. Spock in the "Cloud Minders" had no qualms about discussing it with a woman he just met. I'm assuming that individual Vulcans, like individual humans, have different attitudes about a wide variety of subject. The don't all follow the same cookie cutter beliefs and taboos.
Again I disagree about the Organians. It may add to what we know about them, but that doesn't mean it contradicts what we know.
Star Trek has always followed the speed of plot rather than the speed of light. Earth is either too far away or just a few hours away, depending on what's needed for the story at hand. IIRC, the director of "Broken Bow" changed the reference from 40 days to 4 days when they shot the scene for some reason. Maybe he thought the 40 days line was unbelievable.
Really its not something anyone should get angry about. Mistakes happen. Its not a matter of life or death. Frankly the TOS pandering in Season 4 causes ENT to lose points in my book. I preferred the more subtle approach from Seasons 1 and 2 rather than the lets explain a bunch of stuff that doesn't really need explanations approach of Season 4. Yeah the fanboy in me got excited when I saw it, but ENT was better off keeping that stuff so a minimum.
He and other writers were told by Roddenberry not to watch TOS. I don't think Braga bragged about not watching TOS, nor do I recall him stating he disliked it. The cloak in "Minefield" is the only real serious continuity error in ENT. No excuse for that. Sloppy writing. Maybe that's why the writer/producer (John Shiban) wasn't asked back the next season.
I doubt that something like Pon Farr was totally unknown in the 200 years between first contact and TOS. Though the Vulcans may have used their influence to keep it as secretive as possible. Spock in the "Cloud Minders" had no qualms about discussing it with a woman he just met. I'm assuming that individual Vulcans, like individual humans, have different attitudes about a wide variety of subject. The don't all follow the same cookie cutter beliefs and taboos.
Again I disagree about the Organians. It may add to what we know about them, but that doesn't mean it contradicts what we know.
Star Trek has always followed the speed of plot rather than the speed of light. Earth is either too far away or just a few hours away, depending on what's needed for the story at hand. IIRC, the director of "Broken Bow" changed the reference from 40 days to 4 days when they shot the scene for some reason. Maybe he thought the 40 days line was unbelievable.
Really its not something anyone should get angry about. Mistakes happen. Its not a matter of life or death. Frankly the TOS pandering in Season 4 causes ENT to lose points in my book. I preferred the more subtle approach from Seasons 1 and 2 rather than the lets explain a bunch of stuff that doesn't really need explanations approach of Season 4. Yeah the fanboy in me got excited when I saw it, but ENT was better off keeping that stuff so a minimum.
There were also several lines about the importance of Earth Starfleet securing the Vulcan star charts - presumably the charts show natural warp shortcuts (unknown to the Klingons), meaning that while Earth may now only be four days travel from Qo'noS for the Enterprise, but its 40 days from Qo'noS to Earth for the Klingons.
...However, a travel time of four days between Earth and the Klingon homeworld is true to TOS precedent in every sense. The hero ship in the original show traveled between non-neighboring stars within timeframes of that kind; the hero ships in the spinoffs from the next century travel to the Klingon and Romulan territories in slightly shorter time.
That is staying true to TOS. In contrast, the completely nonsensical "speed=lightspeed times warp factor cubed" formula has not been explicated in ENT any more than in TOS; all we get in ENT (and in TNG and VOY, for that matter) are random references to momentary speed readings that may or may not approximate the cubic scale, mentioned as the ship is in the process of accelerating rather than maintaining speed.
Timo Saloniemi
That is staying true to TOS. In contrast, the completely nonsensical "speed=lightspeed times warp factor cubed" formula has not been explicated in ENT any more than in TOS; all we get in ENT (and in TNG and VOY, for that matter) are random references to momentary speed readings that may or may not approximate the cubic scale, mentioned as the ship is in the process of accelerating rather than maintaining speed.
Timo Saloniemi
Sorry, but it seems to me they just didn't really care. I love trexplanations as much as the next guy, but if you make two clear statements: that it takes 6 minutes to go to Neptune and back and that they are traveling at 36mil km/h when they just hit Warp 4.4- both obviously confirming the official Warp Chart- and then saying it takes only 4 days to Kronos...
The other series may have had similar mistakes(I doubt it), but why be so specific in-dialogue about it -TWICE- to obviously show you are so aware of the Trek lore, and then blatantly disregard it in the same bloody episode- that's just lame and sloppy.
Why touch the subject at all? It's not relevant to the story or anything, but any kid can do the math and see it's bull.
BTW I don't give a rat's ass about that Warp Chart. That's not what I'm moaning about.
I wouldn't have complained if they hadn't adhered to an "official" Warp chart that makes no sense with what we've seen over the years anyway. This was their chance to retcon it and they blew it.
The other series may have had similar mistakes(I doubt it), but why be so specific in-dialogue about it -TWICE- to obviously show you are so aware of the Trek lore, and then blatantly disregard it in the same bloody episode- that's just lame and sloppy.
Why touch the subject at all? It's not relevant to the story or anything, but any kid can do the math and see it's bull.
BTW I don't give a rat's ass about that Warp Chart. That's not what I'm moaning about.
I wouldn't have complained if they hadn't adhered to an "official" Warp chart that makes no sense with what we've seen over the years anyway. This was their chance to retcon it and they blew it.
Similar threads
