Question about ESP and telepaths in TOS

[Alencar1990]

Hey! New Trekkie here! Just got into the franchise recently through SNW and ENT,
and I'm currently starting my very first run of the original series!

After watching "Charlie X" and "Where no man has gone before" I've got some lore-related questions you might like:

Is there an lore explanation for why both Charlie and Gary became so arrogant/impulsive with their powers? I mean, I've seen telepathy in the universe through Vulcan mind-melds, and they seem to have a high degree of mental training, and not all of them can perform the act, as It seems.. Maybe these humans got too much powers too quickly? Or do you think with proper training they could be a new sect of humans with high powers and great intelect?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Human nature.

 

[Alencar1990]

Human nature.

Which is set by whatever material conditions each society has, thus the question..

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Gary was already pretty arrogant - a man who takes pride in helping a woman nearly manipulate his best friend to the altar would have to be. Charlie was an immature orphan with no human role models and poor impulse control.

 

[Alencar1990]

Gary was already pretty arrogant - a man who takes pride in helping a woman nearly manipulate his best friend to the altar would have to be. Charlie was an immature orphan with no human role models and poor impulse control.

Yeah, power really went up to his head faster than Charlie's, he seemed dangerous from the start. The boy seemed like a great opportunity for Thasian-Starfleet cooperation on telepathy, though

 

[Zycho32]

A few things of note;

One, while Vulcan's do in fact have a society with an established(one would say 'iron-clad') discipline when it comes to teaching their young to control their telepathic powers, Gary/Charlie both reach levels faaaaaaar beyond the Vulcan capacity.

The other, said development will in fact take a lot of time even in the most ideal circumstances, ie, training from early childhood on. Trying it on significantly older people is a much steeper mountain to climb because there's a lot more 'already-learned' development you're gonna have to clear away.

As for the arrogance part, while the typical Star Trek episode is condensed to the speed of a 60-minute plot, the truth is finding oneself with an ability completely beyond your peers, or even just finding your normal human abilities enhanced beyond known physical limits, will take a remarkable short time to smooth out or erode the mental and emotional connections with your peers. Pride is shockingly easy to build when you have ability of some renown, and it's only kept in check by those around you who can match or surpass it... and Gary/Charlie had neither. The Thasians had to take Charlie back, and there was no such godly-like entity to take in Gary before he would've inevitably laid waste to the crew of the E.

 

[Metryq]

To expand on Zycho32's comments above, try not to confuse the allegory in an episode with literal plot elements. With that said, Vulcans are telepathic, but not telekinetic, nor can they whisk matter into or out of existence at will. Even with "only" telepathy, we learn that early Vulcan history was very violent and war-like. Their culture of logic and discipline is a chosen path.

Both Trek pilots ("The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before") take more from Forbidden Planet than just the basic premise of an interstellar navy adventuring the frontiers of space. In Forbidden Planet, the Krell gave themselves unchecked, god-like powers through technology. Granted, the Talosians were not so powerful, but their ability to make "reality" anything they wished led to the downfall of their civilization. (They abdicated from reality.)

No path is ideal. There were episodes where Vulcan logic and discipline did not save them ("Galileo 7" and "The Immunity Syndrome"). And there were times when human ingenuity and a little tap-dancing at least matched wits against superior technology and/or culture ("The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Arena").

 

[Alencar1990]

To expand on Zycho32's comments above, try not to confuse the allegory in an episode with literal plot elements. With that said, Vulcans are telepathic, but not telekinetic, nor can they whisk matter into or out of existence at will. Even with "only" telepathy, we learn that early Vulcan history was very violent and war-like. Their culture of logic and discipline is a chosen path.

Both Trek pilots ("The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before") take more from Forbidden Planet than just the basic premise of an interstellar navy adventuring the frontiers of space. In Forbidden Planet, the Krell gave themselves unchecked, god-like powers through technology. Granted, the Talosians were not so powerful, but their ability to make "reality" anything they wished led to the downfall of their civilization. (They abdicated from reality.)

No path is ideal. There were episodes where Vulcan logic and discipline did not save them ("Galileo 7" and "The Immunity Syndrome"). And there were times when human ingenuity and a little tap-dancing at least matched wits against superior technology and/or culture ("The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Arena").

I don't get the first part, but I understand the differences. Vulcans were just a frame of reference. I know there's a huge gap between the two. I was actually confused at first If the lore treats both equally or as separate phenomenom... I'm pretty early in TOS, but I've read about this issue of the early episodes being set apart. So, you believe Kirk's decision was the best? No saving for Gary or even a "second chance" in a controlled environment for Charlie?

 

[Alencar1990]

As for the arrogance part, while the typical Star Trek episode is condensed to the speed of a 60-minute plot, the truth is finding oneself with an ability completely beyond your peers, or even just finding your normal human abilities enhanced beyond known physical limits, will take a remarkable short time to smooth out or erode the mental and emotional connections with your peers. Pride is shockingly easy to build when you have ability of some renown, and it's only kept in check by those around you who can match or surpass it... and Gary/Charlie had neither. The Thasians had to take Charlie back, and there was no such godly-like entity to take in Gary before he would've inevitably laid waste to the crew of the E.

That's a great argument! It's true that too much power too quickly could quickly inflate pretty much anyone's ego, especially knowing that Gary was already manipulative even before the incident...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, power really went up to his head faster than Charlie's, he seemed dangerous from the start. The boy seemed like a great opportunity for Thasian-Starfleet cooperation on telepathy, though

Charlie was a kid. Lacked the maturity to handle the power that was given him.

 

[Metryq]

I was actually confused at first If the lore treats both equally or as separate phenomenom...

TV writing in the '60s did not have the running "story arcs" that are the norm today. They were literally episodic. On top of that, the Trek universe hadn't been hammered out in fine detail the way fans of the spin-offs have come to know it. Thus, TOS and the first season in particular may have disparate takes and specific details that clash. There were story editors to make the gross details match, but the source material came from a diverse selection of writers already established in print.

especially knowing that Gary was already manipulative even before the incident...

Bear in mind that Mitchell was still getting over being killed by HAL. Bound to make anyone ornery. (No, not "orrery"!)

Charlie was kid. Lacked the maturity to handle the power that was given him.

Exactly. You can take it both allegorically and literally.

 

[Tenacity]

The Original Series is a child of the 1960's in America, part of that is the belief in psychic powers. Precognition, telekinesis, telepathy, others.

Spock could read minds, so could Gary and Miranda Jones. Lwaxana Troi could read minds in TNG. T'Pol apparently simply had never received training earlier in her life.

 

[Alencar1990]

TV writing in the '60s did not have the running "story arcs" that are the norm today. They were literally episodic. On top of that, the Trek universe hadn't been hammered out in fine detail the way fans of the spin-offs have come to know it. Thus, TOS and the first season in particular may have disparate takes and specific details that clash. There were story editors to make the gross details match, but the source material came from a diverse selection of writers already established in print.

Interesting take! Guess I'm too used to modern media, eh? I'm enjoying the show a lot, anyways! Sure, there are some weird or dated stuff (Mudd's Women), but everything else is just amazing!

 

[Alencar1990]

Bear in mind that Mitchell was still getting over being killed by HAL. Bound to make anyone ornery. (No, not "orrery"!)

What do you mean? Who/what is 'HAL'?

 

[Alencar1990]

The Original Series is a child of the 1960's in America, part of that is the belief in psychic powers. Precognition, telekinesis, telepathy, others.

Not the greatest fan of those in a scifi show either, but they way It's done, so far, worked fine by me. I didn't like 'time travel', but Star Trek ENT managed to convince me otherwise.. Even If most of It is confusing as hell

 

[Nerys Myk]

What do you mean? Who/what is 'HAL'?

Joke. Gary Lockwood who played Mitchell also starred in 2001 A Space Odyssey that featured a computer named HAL in it.

 

[Phaser Two]

Hey! New Trekkie here! Just got into the franchise recently through SNW and ENT,
and I'm currently starting my very first run of the original series!

After watching "Charlie X" and "Where no man has gone before" I've got some lore-related questions you might like:

Is there an lore explanation for why both Charlie and Gary became so arrogant/impulsive with their powers? I mean, I've seen telepathy in the universe through Vulcan mind-melds, and they seem to have a high degree of mental training, and not all of them can perform the act, as It seems.. Maybe these humans got too much powers too quickly? Or do you think with proper training they could be a new sect of humans with high powers and great intelect?

Nice post. Good for you! I hope you're enjoying the series, and if you stick around here, you can find virtually unlimited discussion about any aspect of the original series with a lot of really sharp people. And a few others . . . like me.

As you watch TOS, you'll encounter several recurring themes. I don't want to spoil anything, but there are about seven or eight, off the top of my head, that pop up repeatedly. Add in a few more and virtually any TOS ep can be grouped into a number of corresponding categories. (And of course there's overlap too.)

One of the less frequently recurring tropes involves what one might broadly call "psychic powers." Other than the Vulcans, virtually any race or individual with such abilities depicted on TOS will have been corrupted by their abilities in some manner - some great, some small. It's allegory for corruption and power as you've identifiied, and quite interesting to see on screen. It's not always just psychic abilities either - see "Space Seed," which you have coming up in the later first season, for an example of enhanced non-supernatural powers among a group.

(Oh, one quick posting tip - when you're replying to multiple posters at around the same time, try to group your replies into one post rather than making a new post for each reply. I'm no mod or anything - and the mods here are QUITE kind and good people - but in case you do decide to stay long term as we all hope, you might run across a reminder from them about that, and I thought I'd offer it here.)

 

[Christopher]

So, you believe Kirk's decision was the best? No saving for Gary or even a "second chance" in a controlled environment for Charlie?

What happened with Charlie was the Thasians' decision, which Kirk tried and failed to talk them out of.

KIRK: The boy belongs with his own kind.
THASIAN: That would be impossible.
KIRK: With training, we can teach him to live in our society. If he can be taught not to use his power
THASIAN: We gave him the power so he could live. He will use it, always, and he would destroy you and your kind, or you would be forced to destroy him to save yourselves.
KIRK: Is there nothing you can do?
THASIAN: We offer him life, and we will take care of him. Come, Charles.

The Star Trek Transcripts - Charlie X

With both Gary and Charlie, the point was to depict a tragic outcome, not an optimal one. It wasn't about Kirk making the right choice, it was about Kirk being left with no choice. Despite how The Wrath of Khan would later give Kirk the cocky line about not believing in no-win scenarios, TOS often put him in just such scenarios and didn't shy away from tragedy.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The only true no-win scenarios Kirk winds up with are things he has no control over. If he can do something, there must be a way to get (some)what he wants.

If he cannot handle a particular aspect of a circumstance, it's out of his hands and the best he can do is preserve what he does have jurisdiction/power/control over.

 

[Christopher]

The only true no-win scenarios Kirk winds up with are things he has no control over. If he can do something, there must be a way to get (some)what he wants.

But that's the whole point of the Kobayashi Maru, to teach cadets that there will be situations where they have no options, no way to win no matter what actions they take, because they can't control everything. Yet Kirk still says he doesn't believe such situations exist, despite having been in them multiple times. (Similarly to how he claims he's "never faced death" despite having lost Gary, Edith Keeler, his brother and sister-in-law, Miramanee and his unborn child, etc.)