Quadrants

[neozeks]

All right, this is a little thing that has always bothered me. Trek maps always show the border between the Alpha and Beta quadrants running exactly through Earth. As I understand it (after reading the Memory Alpha article on the BQ, including the looong discussion page) this stems from the ST Encyclopedia claiming that, supposedly to explain the 'only ship in the quadrant' line from TOS (or TOS movies).

This seems very dubious to me. And, seeing that discussion page, I'm not the only one. First, the supposed reason doesn't hold water. Quadrant has been used in TOS in many ways, including refering to something similar to a sector. Even if we accept the explanation, how could the Enterprise be the only ship in the quadrant if the UFP stretches to both quadrants? That's just absurd.

Even more importantly, the reason why this has bothered me ever since I found about it is that, from watching the series, you never ever get that impression. DS9 always refers just to the AQ even when we hear the Klingons or Romulans talk. Voyager talks about returning to the AQ. The system is way too human-centric etc. Missions to the BQ (Sulu's and the one in DS9 'Sound of Her Voice') are described as years long, implying it's distant etc. Read the MA discussion page for more details.

Only on-screen support seems to come from two astrometrics images from VOY. One's from 'Year of Hell' and it supposedly shows Voyager's route to Earth and the end of that voyage lies at the intersection of AQ and BQ. What I'd like to know is whether the end point is clearly labeled as Earth. If it's not it may simply mean the plotted route ends at the start of the AQ which was like I said, often mentioned as Voyagers goal. Perhaps the UFP border lies somewhere here as well. I don't have the episode, but if someone has, I would apreciate if this could be checked.
The second is a background image shown in a number episodes that is also prominantly represented in the ST Star Charts.

However, should we discard all the dialogue and plots from episodes just for these two (or only one) background images? It would make much more sense to me if the dividing line was moved to the right of Earth. Not too much though, otherwise the GQ and DQ get moved too much as well. Maybe just enough to, say, intersect the Romulan and Klingon spaces in roughly half. As for the origins of the system, perhaps it's an old one and the dividing line goes through a homeworld of some ancient important species (Iconians?) and it has been carried down through time.

 

[captcalhoun]

the meridian line intersecting Earth is because the quadrants were drawn up by humans. the fact that the UFP stretches across both the A and B quadrants was the lame attempt to explain the 'only ship in the quadrant' business. which could just as easily be explained if they'd said quadrants could be sub-sector size units. so, you'd have smaller quadrants, sectors and then the ABGD quadrants.

as for DS9, that was done for simlpicity's sake, like talking about the 'western world' even though Australia and New Zealand are in the southern hemisphere and the eastern half of the planet.

 

[USS Excelsior]

And plus the Earth isn't actually there in real life.

 

[SpyOne]

In support of the notion that the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans are all inside the Alpha Quadrant, take a look at this map:
http://www.livephysics.com/gallery/v/scifi/alpha-quadrant-3D.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Now, that artist has added some cool LCARS stuff, but the main image (including the labels on the stars) is one that appeared on DS9 (in the school Keiko taught) and IIRC on TNG as well. On DS9 it was labeled "The Alpha Quadrant", and it shows everybody we know (Trill, the Tholians, Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans, ...)
Better still, it appears to be gridded off in lines radiating from the center of the galaxy, labeled in their number of degrees. So we can see that Cardassia is between 343 and 344 degrees, closer to 343. while Earth is ... well, the perspective messes things up a bit. I'd guess between 349 and 350. Point is, definitely not at 360/0, which would be the logical place to put a quadrant boundary.
From the looks of that map, the Beta Quadrant is as far beyond Qo'nos and Romulus as they are from ... Vulcan or Earth.

As far out from the center as Earth is, one degree would be around 436 to 524 lightyears, if you want a scale for that map.

 

[Anwar]

In the Trek Star Charts book it was stated that Earth isn't at the line separating the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, it's just a conceit by the humans who did the charts in the first place (an in-universe joke).

When they mention quadrants, it can mean more than the 4 major areas of the galaxy it's cut up into. Quadrant can also mean taking a sector and cutting it into 4 parts as well. So there are the major quadrants, and the minor ones. Usually they refer to the minor ones with the only ship in the quadrant stuff.

 

[Cheapjack]

How do they account for the fact that planets and stars are expanding and rotating and moving away from each other? I think it says in the TNG book that this is accounted for.

 

[Admiral Shran]

All right, this is a little thing that has always bothered me. Trek maps always show the border between the Alpha and Beta quadrants running exactly through Earth. As I understand it (after reading the Memory Alpha article on the BQ, including the looong discussion page) this stems from the ST Encyclopedia claiming that, supposedly to explain the 'only ship in the quadrant' line from TOS (or TOS movies).

This seems very dubious to me. And, seeing that discussion page, I'm not the only one. First, the supposed reason doesn't hold water. Quadrant has been used in TOS in many ways, including refering to something similar to a sector. Even if we accept the explanation, how could the Enterprise be the only ship in the quadrant if the UFP stretches to both quadrants? That's just absurd.

Even more importantly, the reason why this has bothered me ever since I found about it is that, from watching the series, you never ever get that impression. DS9 always refers just to the AQ even when we hear the Klingons or Romulans talk. Voyager talks about returning to the AQ. The system is way too human-centric etc. Missions to the BQ (Sulu's and the one in DS9 'Sound of Her Voice') are described as years long, implying it's distant etc. Read the MA discussion page for more details.

Only on-screen support seems to come from two astrometrics images from VOY. One's from 'Year of Hell' and it supposedly shows Voyager's route to Earth and the end of that voyage lies at the intersection of AQ and BQ. What I'd like to know is whether the end point is clearly labeled as Earth. If it's not it may simply mean the plotted route ends at the start of the AQ which was like I said, often mentioned as Voyagers goal. Perhaps the UFP border lies somewhere here as well. I don't have the episode, but if someone has, I would apreciate if this could be checked.
The second is a background image shown in a number episodes that is also prominantly represented in the ST Star Charts.

However, should we discard all the dialogue and plots from episodes just for these two (or only one) background images? It would make much more sense to me if the dividing line was moved to the right of Earth. Not too much though, otherwise the GQ and DQ get moved too much as well. Maybe just enough to, say, intersect the Romulan and Klingon spaces in roughly half. As for the origins of the system, perhaps it's an old one and the dividing line goes through a homeworld of some ancient important species (Iconians?) and it has been carried down through time.

Thank God! I thought I was the only one bothered by this. This has always been one of my major pet peeves about Trek. All the points you make, I couldn't agree with more.

First, the reason given for dividing the Federation between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants - the whole "only ship in the Quadrant" thing - is just downright ridiculous to me. It assumes that the audience is too stupid to realize that the concept of the Four Major Quadrants wasn't invented until the third season of TNG, The Price to be exact. It's called suspension of disbelief; just let us assume that they were talking about quadrants of sectors before The Price. But, even if the UFP strecthes into the Beta Quadrant, having one ship in such a vast expanse of terrority makes absolutely no sense. Especially if the UFP's capital sits on the border.

Second, as you said, the shows themselves make it abundantly apparent that the main powers in the region - the UFP, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, etc. - are all Alpha Quadrant powers. I could buy the idea of the characters simply referring to them all as Alpha Quadrant powers instead of Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers for simlpicity's sake, if they had ONCE referred to the Beta Quadrant terrorities. For example, Russia is considered a part of Europe, but it strecthes into Asia as well (in fact, most of it is in Asia). That's a well-known fact, but we accept that Russia is both a European and an Asian power for simlpicity's sake. However, never once is the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, the Federation, or any state in Trek referred to as a Beta Quadrant power.

Third, while I do like the idea of the Quadrant system being designed and promoted by Humans, I think placing humanity's homeworld on the dividing line is kind of odd. The Memory Alpha discussion page referred to something I find much more plausible, and workable. One person referred to the Quadrant boundaries being like the division of Earth with the Prime Meridian. However, if that's what Humans, and the UFP, did in Trek, then Earth should be in the exact center of the Alpha Quadrant, not on it's very outer edge. After all, the Prime Meridian doesn't divide the world into two "days." That's the job of the International Date Line, and it's on the exact opposite side of the planet! Having Earth in the center of Quadrant makes much, much more sense to me.

Fourth, those background images showing Voyager's route home were created by people who either bought into or whated to promote this concept. However, there is absolutely NO onscreen evidence that Earth sits on the dividing line. And, those images never do clearly indicate that Earth is Voyager's final destination. It could simply be the start of the Alpha Quadrant, like you say, or the start of UFP terrority.

Fifth, Star Trek Star Charts is absolutely worthless as far as I'm concerned. Not only does it showcase this concept, but there are numerous downright flaws in it as well. It has the Romulan Empire and the Cardassian Union being on opposite sides of the Federation, even though a Romulan-Cardassian border was established in two DS9 episodes. It completely omits Voyager's trip to the Talaxian system from the episode Jetrel. I could go on, but I won't.

Woah, sorry. Didn't mean to go off on a rant there. But, like I said, this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[neozeks]

I could buy the idea of the characters simply referring to them all as Alpha Quadrant powers instead of Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers for simlpicity's sake, if they had ONCE referred to the Beta Quadrant terrorities. For example, Russia is considered a part of Europe, but it strecthes into Asia as well (in fact, most of it is in Asia). That's a well-known fact, but we accept that Russia is both a European and an Asian power for simlpicity's sake. However, never once is the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, the Federation, or any state in Trek referred to as a Beta Quadrant power.

Further more, if you accept Earth as the dividing point, unless you move the Romulan and Klingon territories a lot to the 'left', they won't even partially be in the AQ, like Russia is in Europe. In the Star Charts maps they are completely in the BQ! Australia isn't a good example here either. It is considered western because of it's culture. The Klings/Rommies would have no such connection to the AQ.

Third, while I do like the idea of the Quadrant system being designed and promoted by Humans, I think placing humanity's homeworld on the dividing line is kind of odd. The Memory Alpha discussion page referred to something I find much more plausible, and workable. One person referred to the Quadrant boundaries being like the division of Earth with the Prime Meridian. However, if that's what Humans, and the UFP, did in Trek, then Earth should be in the exact center of the Alpha Quadrant, not on it's very outer edge. After all, the Prime Meridian doesn't divide the world into two "days." That's the job of the International Date Line, and it's on the exact opposite side of the planet! Having Earth in the center of Quadrant makes much, much more sense to me.

That's a neat idea. However, I'm not sure what that would do to Voyager's trajectory home or the location of the Gamma side of the Wormhole.

Fifth, Star Trek Star Charts is absolutely worthless as far as I'm concerned. Not only does it showcase this concept, but there are numerous downright flaws in it as well. It has the Romulan Empire and the Cardassian Union being on opposite sides of the Federation, even though a Romulan-Cardassian border was established in two DS9 episodes. It completely omits Voyager's trip to the Talaxian system from the episode Jetrel. I could go on, but I won't.

I respect the work that went into making the Charts (and it's not like we have anything to compare them to), but I have just as many qualms with them as you. Not counting simple mistakes, it seems to me they went out of their way to accomodate some stuff from background materials and briefly seen on-screen images (which, let's face it, were primarily made to look pretty and not to make sense) at the expense of major points established by the dialogue and required by the plots. I mean, sure, you can convolutedly rationalize the contradictions but in this case I think Occam's Razor is preferable.

 

[Admiral Shran]

That's a neat idea. However, I'm not sure what that would do to Voyager's trajectory home or the location of the Gamma side of the Wormhole.

As for Voyager's trajectory - I think it only enhances the idea that the background images show the final destination as somewhere other than Earth, like the start of the Alpha Quadrant or UFP terrority.

As for the Gamma side of the Wormhole - We don't know, from what's on-screen, where exactly the Wormhole empties out in the Gamma Quadrant. It was never necessary for us to know, for the storytelling. It could be in the center or more towards one of the edges; we just don't know.

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

Ive seen a map like that before, and i assumed Earth was smack in the middle to give us a reference point of sorts, to show the location of the other planets/systems in a relative correlation to Earth. Otherwise, however, and in reality, it is not in the intersecting point of the Quads.

Federation - AQ
Klingons - AQ/BQ
Romulans - AQ/BQ
Cardassians - AQ/BQ/GQ (i THINK, as i thought they were in the intersecting corners of those)
Dominion - GQ
Borg - DQ

 

[FalTorPan]

Idea

Perhaps it would have been better if Earth were along the "45-degree line" within the Alpha Quadrant, rather than on the Alpha/Beta border.

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, any star chart is going to be arbitrary, no matter who draws it. It all boils down to somebody saying "this is here," "this is there," and "there be dragons way over here."

In the Federation Star Charts, it makes perfect sense for the home systems to straddle the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, because it was the Federation that drew that particular map. But in the Klingon Star Charts, Qo'noS may be in the center of Quadrant One (just as an example), with Earth tucked away in some pitiful backwater sector on their map.

But when we hear a non-Federation citizen (such as a Klingon or a Romulan) refer to a particular quadrant, perhaps we're hearing that converted through a universal translator into Federation terminology. Otherwise, I don't think neither the Klingons or the Romulans would place Earth in a prominent location on their respective maps.

 

[T'Girl]

If you were standing in the middle of the Federation, the Klingon Empire is in front of you. The Romulans to your right, The Cardassians over your head, with Bajor above your left ear.

Biggest problem with any map showing the Federation is that it's usually in two dimensions, the old Star Trek maps from the '80s I remember gave you three maps showing the Federation from three 90 degree separate angles.

Some of the early novels used "Octrants."

 

[Timo]

But when we hear a non-Federation citizen (such as a Klingon or a Romulan) refer to a particular quadrant, perhaps we're hearing that converted through a universal translator into Federation terminology.

That's more or less a given - after all, we have to assume that the concepts of "minute" or "kilogram" or "lightyear" are also being translated from alien originals, too.

Australia isn't a good example here either. It is considered western because of it's culture. The Klings/Rommies would have no such connection to the AQ.

But that's exactly the connection they have. They share the cultural trait of opposing the Gamma Quadrant, and that's the only cultural trait that matters in the Dominion War.

For that matter, the Dominion isn't the same thing as the Gamma Quadrant - but for the purposes of DS9 dialogue, it is exactly that.

On the "original rationale" behind the adoption of the four-quadrant system, I don't see any reason to dismiss the idea that it was created to countermand a single line in ST:TMP - even though that purpose of course is pretty idiotic. It's still likely to be more or less true, as idiocy is relatively commonplace... The broader explanation for that single line is easily found in Star Trek consistency: starships just plain don't hang around Earth in the general case, and it shouldn't be surprising if the next one were in a completely different subdivision of Starfleet cartography.

Also, it's clear that all the pre-TNG uses of the word "quadrant" refer to something distinctly smaller than a sector, and that's perfectly all right. The Trek universe is big enough for two types of quadrant. The "all quadrants of the galaxy" line in "Alternative Factor" fits fine with the four galactic quadrants, and the TMP line about the hero ship being "the only one in the quadrant" is also fine because we're talking about a very specific last-hour intercept; a ship a few lightyears away could well be too late to do anything about V'Ger.

The grey area is whether the assorted quadrants of early TNG, such as "Morgana Quadrant", can be easily equated with the tiny quadrants of TOS and ST2. I don't see why not, though: an area smaller than a sector ought to be a valid target for an exploratory mission, whereas a larger area would actually be a dubious target for one ship to cover.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[captcalhoun]

the map linked further up is actually from TNG Conspiracy it was on the wall behind Remmick when he got phasered.

 

[Penta]

Biggest problem with any map showing the Federation is that it's usually in two dimensions, the old Star Trek maps from the '80s I remember gave you three maps showing the Federation from three 90 degree separate angles.

That's in no small part because humans learn basically from birth to think in 2, maybe 2 and a half dimensions, not 3. Leaving aside that the maps/charts books to date have been printed on paper and thus had to be in 2D, I'm not sure most people could immediately grasp scale or much else in 3D.

 

[Timo]

...Also, the way space is depicted in Star Trek itself is predominantly 2D. There may be in-universe reasons for this, perhaps something like subspace only being traversable along a relatively thin layer close to the galactic plane. Or then there could be "halfway in, halfway out" universe explanations, such as space really being explored and exploited in 3D by our heroes and villains, yet depicted as 2D by the same heroes and villains because they, too, are just humans (or human-looking and human-sounding space aliens) and get a headache from complex 3D maps.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[neozeks]

If you were standing in the middle of the Federation, the Klingon Empire is in front of you. The Romulans to your right, The Cardassians over your head, with Bajor above your left ear.

You know, I once made a rough 3D model of the Federation and its neighbours and that's pretty much what I came up with.

Australia isn't a good example here either. It is considered western because of it's culture. The Klings/Rommies would have no such connection to the AQ.

But that's exactly the connection they have. They share the cultural trait of opposing the Gamma Quadrant, and that's the only cultural trait that matters in the Dominion War.

I'd hardly call that a cultural trait. And we still have VOY using AQ as a sinonym for Earth and the Federation - 'home'.

And to further elaborate why putting Earth in the middle of the AQ makes more sense from a practical standpoint. That way when you say something is in the AQ you immediatelly know it's roughly in the part of the Galaxy closest to the Federation, with the GQ and BQ further away and the DQ farthest. But if Earth is on the dividing line a place in the AQ could be right next to Earth or waaaay far away. A place in the BQ as well. It's simply not as useful.

 

[Admiral Shran]

And to further elaborate why putting Earth in the middle of the AQ makes more sense from a practical standpoint. That way when you say something is in the AQ you immediatelly know it's roughly in the part of the Galaxy closest to the Federation, with the GQ and BQ further away and the DQ farthest. But if Earth is on the dividing line a place in the AQ could be right next to Earth or waaaay far away. A place in the BQ as well. It's simply not as useful.

That makes a lot of sense. In VOY: Flashback, Janeway says that most of the Alpha Quadrant has been explored. If Earth were on the dividing line between the AQ and the BQ, that would mean Humans, or the entire Federation, would have to have traveled close to 50,000 light-years and studied it all in detail. Since the UFP only stretches over 8,000 light-years, I find this highly unlikely. It would also mean that they've only explored in one direction, not venturing into the supposedly right-next-door BQ all that much. Again, I find that highly unlikely.

However, if Earth sits in the center of the Quadrant, it would be much easier to have the AQ almost fully explored. Humans would have knowledge of what they've explored personally and knowledge of known space in the neighboring areas (like the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Empire, the Cardassian Union, etc.).

 

[Timo]

Janeway's claim would nevertheless be at odds with the early TNG claims that just 11% has been charted in the first 300 centuries of effort by 2363-64 ("Where No One Has Gone Before") and that just 19% has been charted by 3264-65("Dauphin").

Unless we interpret these two statements as saying that 11% of the galaxy had been explored by the first season of TNG and 19% by the second, which would mean that 100% of the galaxy would be explored by 2373 at the very latest. And probably much faster, since the pace would have to have accelerated thousandfold between those two TNG episodes!

But the "Where No One" reference mentions the first 300 years, which suggests Kosinski there is speaking solely of human effort which indeed began in the mid-21st century. In contrast, "Dauphin" just has Wesley say that "we" have charted 19%, which probably means the Federation has done that much. Humans may have contributed 11 out of the 19 percentage points, but more probably humans have merely retraced something like 10 out of the 19 percentage points and only added one point of charting no other UFP species has done before. This interpretation would eliminate the need for a rapid acceleration in exploration during TNG's first season.

In any case, 11, 19 and 25% of the galaxy all sound like very large numbers, considering the lack of range and speed by UFP starships. It would be tempting to think that most of the "charting" (the term used in both the TNG episodes) has been rather cursory work that does not involve actual starship visits - it's done mostly by probes and subspace telescopes. However, Janeway counters with her 25% figure for "exploration", which sort of suggests actual visits... Perhaps we should just argue that Janeway's "exploration" is even more cursory than Kosinski and Wesley's "charting"?

Timo Saloniemi