Q and the Fourth Wall

[sojourner]

Would it have been cool if Q had broken the fourth wall at some point? Maybe in one of his many speeches mention something about "in some dimensions I've been to your precious Federation and your ship are nothing more than fiction to keep the masses entertained".

There have been moments where the character definitely pushed at the fourth wall. I was just wondering if it would have worked to actually cross that line?

Has Q in the novels ever done this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall

 

[xortex]

It would have been funny if he said 'I am the media salvation for the internally inept' to quote Yvonne Fern's book about GR.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Would it have been cool if Q had broken the fourth wall at some point? Maybe in one of his many speeches mention something about "in some dimensions I've been to your precious Federation and your ship are nothing more than fiction to keep the masses entertained".

There have been moments where the character definitely pushed at the fourth wall. I was just wondering if it would have worked to actually cross that line?

Has Q in the novels ever done this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall

I wouldn't have minded Q breaking the fourth wall, but I'm fairly sure some fans would have foamed at the mouth.

By the way, could you cite a specific example when Q leaned on the fourth wall?

I recall enjoying I, Q, and while I don't remember any leaning on the fourth wall in it, I won't swear it didn't happen. A lot's gone under the bridge since I read it!

 

[sojourner]

^the best example I can think of at the moment is the episode where he looses his powers. A lot of his comments in the episode seem to be taking the side of the viewer on things like all the "techno-babble" - "Why don't you just raise the gravity constant of the universe?" - that type of thing. Also, something about the line in the DS9 episode he was on -"Picard never hit me!" just to me seems a little blunt in it's observance of the difference in character between Sisko and Picard.

 

[Vanyel]

Q did break the 4th Wall. In Death Wish, while Quinn was trying to hide from Q he turned them into a Hallmark Christmas Ornament (I think that was, or had been on sale at the time) and hung them on a Christmas Tree. Q did find them, by turning the ship towards him so they could show he had found them.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^the best example I can think of at the moment is the episode where he looses his powers. A lot of his comments in the episode seem to be taking the side of the viewer on things like all the "techno-babble" - "Why don't you just raise the gravity constant of the universe?" - that type of thing. Also, something about the line in the DS9 episode he was on -"Picard never hit me!" just to me seems a little blunt in it's observance of the difference in character between Sisko and Picard.

Got you! I can see what you mean.

Indeed, as if Sisko is as familiar with Picard as we are.

Q did break the 4th Wall. In Death Wish, while Quinn was trying to hide from Q he turned them into a Hallmark Christmas Ornament (I think that was, or had been on sale at the time) and hung them on a Christmas Tree. Q did find them, by turning the ship towards him so they could show he had found them.

I don't recall seeing on screen exactly what Voyager was turned into, though my memory of VOY episodes is a little fuzzy. My recollection was that the ship was just rescaled in size. Are you sure this wasn't just leaning on the fourth wall?

 

[Vanyel]

Q did break the 4th Wall. In Death Wish, while Quinn was trying to hide from Q he turned them into a Hallmark Christmas Ornament (I think that was, or had been on sale at the time) and hung them on a Christmas Tree. Q did find them, by turning the ship towards him so they could show he had found them.

I don't recall seeing on screen exactly what Voyager was turned into, though my memory of VOY episodes is a little fuzzy. My recollection was that the ship was just rescaled in size. Are you sure this wasn't just leaning on the fourth wall?

Well according to Paris, and I'm paraphrasing, they were tethered to a large plant. So that would indicate that they were a Christmas Tree ornament.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ That's right; they were indeed tethered to a large plant that looks exactly like a Christmas tree. But the point is that they aren't necessarily specifically turned into a Hallmark ornament (TM). As far as we know, they are just scaled down in size; there's no way to know exactly what the ship even looks like on the tree IIRC. All we see is the view from the viewscreen, right? So, at worst, it's just leaning on the fourth wall (given the real world timing of the release of the Voyager ornament).

 

[The Wormhole]

Q did break the 4th Wall. In Death Wish, while Quinn was trying to hide from Q he turned them into a Hallmark Christmas Ornament (I think that was, or had been on sale at the time)

No. Death Wish originally aired February 1996. The Voyager ornament was released for Christmas 1996, but would have been approved sometime in 1995. It's very possible the episode was being filmed on the same day the approval was signed. It's all coincidental.

 

[Vanyel]

However, they were indeed tethered to a Christmas tree. It's a pine tree, has ornaments (ball and an angel) holly (or is it mistletoe?) and lights. So it is a Christmas tree. They were tethered, or hung to it and neither, Paris, B'Ellana or Kim indicated any structural changes to the ship, so it must have retained it shape. The ship retained its shape when it went to the Big Bang and to sub atomic size, so why not on the Christmas tree? It must be a Voyager ornament on a tree, Hallmark or not. Since the Voyager ornament was out at that time, it must be a play on it, and that would be a breaking of the 4th wall.

Edit to say: I'll concede that the Voyager ornament was not out and most likely not even announced at the time. But ship ornaments were being released yearly, at that time the viewing audience knew a Voyager ornament was coming at some point.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No. Since it doesn't literally reference the real world, it's not breaking the fourth wall; that there is called leaning on the fourth wall.

 

[A Little Otter]

No. Since it doesn't literally reference the real world, it's not breaking the fourth wall; that there is called leaning on the fourth wall.

Also, if Q had turned to the camera and addressed the audience directly, that would have broken the fourth wall. He's the only character that could have gotten away with that, but it would have probably been cheesy and broken the fictional reality of the show.

 

[Therin of Andor]

if Q had turned to the camera and addressed the audience directly, that would have broken the fourth wall. He's the only character that could have gotten away with that, but it would have probably been cheesy and broken the fictional reality of the show.

McCoy broke the fourth wall in "Journey to Babel", IIRC. "Well, waddya know, I finally had the last word" - directed to the audience.

 

[Mr Silver]

Would it have been cool if Q had broken the fourth wall at some point?

Like Joker in the Batman comics, who is aware that he's a comic book character and occasionly addresses the reader directly?

I suppose it could have been quite cool and would add a unique element to the franchise. The only problem is that Q was meant to come across as semi-serious despite his outward personality. If he was cast as a meta-fictional character then it could have made people treat him similar to how they do the Ferengi - as comic relief. It was getting close to this in VOY with the whole Q being a father saga.

Sisko spent most of "In The Pale Moonlight" directly addressing the audience, although this was setup as if he was making a log entry and debating his own actions.

 

[Alienesse]

^the best example I can think of at the moment is the episode where he looses his powers. A lot of his comments in the episode seem to be taking the side of the viewer on things like all the "techno-babble" - "Why don't you just raise the gravity constant of the universe?" - that type of thing. Also, something about the line in the DS9 episode he was on -"Picard never hit me!" just to me seems a little blunt in it's observance of the difference in character between Sisko and Picard.

I don't think these are real instances of a character breaking the fourth wall. Q's remark about changing the gravitational constant of the universe is one that is not perceived as humorous in-universe (in fact, La Forge seemed quite irritated by it), but is humorous to us because we know that something like that is impossible to achieve for beings without super-powers, and also because we know that Q's arrogance springs from the very fact that he does possess super-powers. It seems more like a conscious effort on the part of the writers to acknowledge the audience.

Also, something about the line in the DS9 episode he was on -"Picard never hit me!" just to me seems a little blunt in it's observance of the difference in character between Sisko and Picard.

Indeed, as if Sisko is as familiar with Picard as we are.

Q's line in DS9 does not necessarily require Sisko to have the same knowledge of Picard that we do. It's enough that Q knows what he's talking about and that we know. Again, this doesn't seem to be a case of breaking the fourth wall, but merely a hint from the writers towards the audience, saying "we know you religiously follow our show and are in tune with our characters, here's a joke you get more out of than a main character (Sisko), to acknowledge your dedication".

if Q had turned to the camera and addressed the audience directly, that would have broken the fourth wall. He's the only character that could have gotten away with that, but it would have probably been cheesy and broken the fictional reality of the show.

McCoy broke the fourth wall in "Journey to Babel", IIRC. "Well, waddya know, I finally had the last word" - directed to the audience.

Exactly! That is breaking the fourth wall right there!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Indeed, as if Sisko is as familiar with Picard as we are.

Q's line in DS9 does not necessarily require Sisko to have the same knowledge of Picard that we do. It's enough that Q knows what he's talking about and that we know. Again, this doesn't seem to be a case of breaking the fourth wall, but merely a hint from the writers towards the audience, saying "we know you religiously follow our show and are in tune with our characters, here's a joke you get more out of than a main character (Sisko), to acknowledge your dedication".

Which is why this doesn't break the fourth wall; it only leans on it.

if Q had turned to the camera and addressed the audience directly, that would have broken the fourth wall. He's the only character that could have gotten away with that, but it would have probably been cheesy and broken the fictional reality of the show.

McCoy broke the fourth wall in "Journey to Babel", IIRC. "Well, waddya know, I finally had the last word" - directed to the audience.

Exactly! That is breaking the fourth wall right there!

Actually, this was just leaning on the fourth wall too. If McCoy had looked directly into the camera, then it would have broken it. As it is, he's just talking to himself.

 

[sojourner]

^the best example I can think of at the moment is the episode where he looses his powers. A lot of his comments in the episode seem to be taking the side of the viewer on things like all the "techno-babble" - "Why don't you just raise the gravity constant of the universe?" - that type of thing. Also, something about the line in the DS9 episode he was on -"Picard never hit me!" just to me seems a little blunt in it's observance of the difference in character between Sisko and Picard.

I don't think these are real instances of a character breaking the fourth wall. Q's remark about changing the gravitational constant of the universe is one that is not perceived as humorous in-universe (in fact, La Forge seemed quite irritated by it), but is humorous to us because we know that something like that is impossible to achieve for beings without super-powers, and also because we know that Q's arrogance springs from the very fact that he does possess super-powers. It seems more like a conscious effort on the part of the writers to acknowledge the audience.

I agree, it doesn't break the wall, which is why I gave those as examples of leaning against the fourth wall.