Q and Guinan

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Methos, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Methos

    Methos Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was just rewatching old episodes, and came across Q Who randomly...

    I was just wondering if the nature of the relationship between Q and Guinan was ever discussed in the books or anywhere else?

    The way they talk in the episode, seems to indicate that Q and Guinan have some sort of history or back story together, but as far as i can remember, it was never explained further in the series...

    Can anyone enlighten me here, or was it just left at that and never tied up?

    M
     
  2. RaymondJames

    RaymondJames Captain Captain

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    Sadly, no. I do not believe this has ever been covered in the novels and short stories. :cardie: Odd. I hope that someone does at least write something that covers this potentially wonderful story.
     
  3. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    my theory is that they were former lovers
     
  4. RaymondJames

    RaymondJames Captain Captain

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    hahahaha nice one. I personally have always speculated that it has something to do with their philosophies regarding the universe/time. The Q seem to have little regard for other species and use them like pawns on a chess board. The El-Aurian seem to be very connected to time and space,and hold a respect for things. I speculate that the Q and Guinan's species clashed at some point. Even in "Q Who," Guinan showed great disgust for what Q (the one we knew very well from TNG) had done by sending the Enterprise-D in the path of a Borg cube.
     
  5. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    I'm guessing Q's probably tormented Guinan and her people. Picard also could say that he had a 'history' with Q at the end of the series, although surely not as long as the history between Guinan and Q.

    He probably did something really mean, like turn the leader of the El-Aurians into a Cardassian flea.
     
  6. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Guinan's people are very long lived and even seem to have a perception that transcends space and time. It's possible there was an "encounter" of some-sort between Gunian and Q that built a strong mutual mistrust. I like the notion they're former lovers with Q being the spurned one. :lol:

    And contrary to what some people perceive in "Q-Who" I don't believe Qunian (or any El-Aurians) have "zappy powers" or something as suggested by her stance when they first encounter one another in 10-Fwd. I think she was just taking an offensive/defensive stance ready to throw down with Q if he got physical.
     
  7. Methos

    Methos Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    not sure personally...

    from the encounter in Q Who, the way Guinan was stood, specifically the way she moved her hands defensively, said she had a way of defending herself against Q's powers...

    It was sort of confirmed by the way Q described her as an 'imp' and 'not what she appeared to be'... made me wonder if the writers had planned Guinan's race as being the 'anti-Q' so to speak

    M
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Wherever she goes, trouble follows."

    This is just speculation on my part, but I see Q having taken an interest with Guinan kind of like Q took an interest to Vash. In their explorations, which Gunian was directing, they came upon the Borg. The Borg having learned of the El-Aurians, targetted them and Guinan blames Q for it or for not saving them as he watched.
     
  9. XFozzboute

    XFozzboute Captain Captain

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    Maybe they're the same person split in two. Or not. :D
     
  10. Shikarnov

    Shikarnov Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Now that's an interesting idea. Guinan, the epitome of the Federation's Prime Directive. Observing, but never interfering - even in the face of a Borg invasion straight to Earth. And Q, the meddler, tormenter, pushing humanity to the brink of destruction, all to test our mettle.

    That would have been so engaging, and a much better background for Guinan's people than a race of refugee listeners.
     
  11. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    If Guinan were powerful enough to stand up to Q, then how did the Borg nearly manage to destroy her people?

    The Traveler and Douwd also were not what they seemed. It doesn't mean they were able to take on a Q, though.
     
  12. T'Preea

    T'Preea Commander Red Shirt

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    I've always wondered about Q and Guinan. I always thought that however far back they go, Q and the Continuum might have been enemies of the El-Aurians. Or Guinan may have made a deal with Q and he broke his end of the bargain. He does tend to do that on many occasions. It would be nice if some literature could be put out about the back story on the two of them so we don't have to keep wondering and speculating about it.
     
  13. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the key to Guinan's character was that we were never really supposed to know much about her. It was the mystery that kept her interesting. She was never even identified as an El Aurian until they thought it would be nice for her and Soran to be of the same race. We get little nuggets of information, like her history with Q or her having been on Earth hundreds of years earlier, but nothing concrete.

    By the same token, we can't really make any definite pronouncements as to her powers or lack thereof. Perhaps she does have some power that makes her as formidable as the Q. Or perhaps she has some quality that acts as an effective defense against Q, but not such a power that she could be effective against someone like the Borg. What if her "sixth sense" and innate understanding of time and space, and her seeming ability to see beyond the space/time continuum, give her a way to see past the Q's "parlor tricks," so to speak, making them ineffective?
     
  14. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I forget, in the episode, does guinan have a problem with "the Q" or just this specific Q (john de lancie)? Because that would be a big difference. I always get the impression the other Q are not as bad as OUR Q.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  15. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Guinan begins by exclaiming "I knew it was you!" and then later tells Picard, regarding Q, "we have had some dealings." So it would seem she is familiar with the Q we all know. Whether or not she has had any problems with other members of the Q species is never established.
     
  16. Nacluv

    Nacluv Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Ever seen Deja Q? It seems the reason Q was stripped of his powers was because Q2 and other members thought he misbehaved which would imply that the other Qs are not as bad, or at least not as playful.
     
  17. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, I remembered that, which is partially why I asked. I wanted to see if the writers made that distinction back in Q Who as well. (the idea that Q is just a standout troublemaker. even if guinan doesn't outright say that, if she specifically only refers to him as being trouble, then it works.)

    If guinan had said Q is bad, and not THE Q are bad, that could work as a seed for that idea.

    'Course I could just check myself :D


    Ah then that's an important distinction to make. It appears that she might just hate this Q(john delancie). She might not have anything against all of the Q. I need to watch the episode again to see if that idea works.
     
  18. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    If the extra-temporal perception is a species trait, they could have had their own DTI and Q plays with space-time so he could've been Agent Guinan's nemesis as it were.
     
  19. Nacluv

    Nacluv Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Ah, then I misunderstood you. I thought you said that John de Lancie was the least bad of them which would make the Q continuum a really f*cked up, evil cult.

    The impression I get from Q2 is that Q is not necessarily much more evil than many of the others, he's just a troublemaker who has a harder time following the rules. I'd guess there are some limitations to what they may do and how often. They follow the rules because they have to, not necessarily because they have any good intents or any respect for the universe.

    From Memory Alpha:
    "All attempts to rescue Q fail as Q2, who had Q stripped of his powers and was watching him to see how he reacted, disables the tractor beam, transporters, shields, etc. He pops in to see Q and says that his display of selflessness has convinced him to give Q's powers back so long as he behaves himself. Q2 says he cannot go back to the Q Continuum and tell the others that Q was selfless right before he died because it would be un-Q-like. Q gets his powers back and is about to seek revenge on the Calamarain, but Q2 pops in again, so Q puts the Calamarain back, blowing them out like a candle."


    "un-Q-like" could mean both unlike John de Lancie, or unlike the species Q but like I said, when I see the episode I don't get the impression that Q2 is much more nicer than Q.
     
  20. Nacluv

    Nacluv Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I believe that Q's statement of Guinan "not being what she seems to be" could also be intellectually based. That she knows much more about the universe and dimensions than most humans do. She could also possess some other mental powers that surpass pure intellect and human cognition. I believe there's a reason why she was unaffected in Yesterday's Enterprise.