Public Healthcare plan would encourage employers to abandon plans

[Danoz]

Having watched healthcare "town halls" for the last four hours while I worked today, this is one question that not a single Democrat (even Obama himself) seem to have addressed. I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

Anybody have any insight to this? I see a lot of dangers right now in the plan being put together...

 

[Shaw]

Health care based on employment is already a bad model. Lose your job, lose your health care. Getting a new job doesn't mean getting back your original health care. Employers are already abandoning employees as the cost skyrocket, that is why a minimum safety net would be nice.

I had health care via my wife for quite a few years, she lost her job and her new employer doesn't provide health care for family members. I've been without health care for nearly three years now.

No doctors visits for me, important medications I need are beyond what we can pay... I'm basically screwed.

What most people don't understand is that the health care system we have now is design for the healthy. Become sick or in need, health care companies will do what ever they can to drop you like a bad habit.

The only health care that is worth having is one that can't drop you... no matter what.

As I said, my wife's new health care only covers her... but a couple months ago it stopped. Someone forgot to submit her hours for the month and her health care was discontinued. It was a mistake that was corrected after a few weeks, but she too had to go without her medication during that time.

She has health care and it was that easy to no longer be covered.

Those with health care should be pushing for this as much as those without... after all, most people are actually closer to losing coverage than they care to admit.

I'm living on borrowed time without my medication... it was $15 a month, it is now $125 a month. I needed this public plan a few years ago, it can't happen fast enough (and I hope I make it that long).

 

[miraclefan]

Having watched healthcare "town halls" for the last four hours while I worked today, this is one question that not a single Democrat (even Obama himself) seem to have addressed. I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

Anybody have any insight to this? I see a lot of dangers right now in the plan being put together...

Quite. If the Obama's people even get a whith of something negetive about the ''Obamacare'' plan they will come down on you hard.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I'm living on borrowed time without my medication... it was $15 a month, it is now $125 a month. I needed this public plan a few years ago, it can't happen fast enough (and I hope I make it that long).

Yikes. Is there no public assistance program that can help? I can't believe an employer would cover an employee but not her family. That sucks.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Having watched healthcare "town halls" for the last four hours while I worked today, this is one question that not a single Democrat (even Obama himself) seem to have addressed. I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

Anybody have any insight to this? I see a lot of dangers right now in the plan being put together...

Quite. If the Obama's people even get a whith of something negetive about the ''Obamacare'' plan they will come down on you hard.

So, somebody explain this to me. If employers start dropping their coverage like crazy because they're afear'd of "Obamacare," couldn't those people then join the public option and thus have coverage? Where's the problem here? Other than the prospect of jerkoff employers sticking it to their employees to make a political statement, I mean.

 

[DBR]

I really have no idea how the system works, or is intended to work down there, but in Canada, private insurance is offered by many companies (actually, every company I have worked for in a full time capacity), which often picks up the tab on things that aren't covered by the government.

It is not mandatory for companies to offer insurance... they just do.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

If not for the companies that offer it as part of their benefits package in the US, most people would not have any insurance at all. This is part of the motivation for a public option--so that when people lose their jobs, they don't lose their insurance, too.

 

[Jayson]

If Private insurance doesn't want people to abandon teir plans, then it's up to them to adjust the plans to make people want to stay with them. The point of Private insurance to provide a safety net for people who can't afford private insurance and force insurance companies to adjust how it does business. They can keep trying to screw people over, but if they do then they loose business to government health care. If they do what there supose then they stay in business. That is how we should aproach this issue. The government isn't trying to encourage anyone to pick one system. It shouldn't be, at any rate. It's basically doing, what the free market is supose to do, and provide competition and allowing people to go with the plan they like best.

Jason

 

[Middle Earther]

Small businesses should abandon their plans in favor of the least expensive option which would probably be gov't healthcare - the prices are too high for these businesses to pay. This would force insurance companies to re-negotiate their prices to keep customers. That's kind of the idea - lets force some accountablity into the system.

 

[Mallory]

I think it's pretty much a given in my company that we'll be eliminating our health insurance plan if a public plan becomes available. We currently pay over $12,000/month for 15 employees (2/3 employer and 1/3 employee) for it. I'm pretty sure the owner would prefer to pocket an extra $8,000/month as opposed to spending it on health insurance.

 

[Small White Car]

I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

So let me get this straight:

1) Government offers cheaper healthcare.
2) Small businesses tell their employees to get that because it's cheaper.
3) (something something)
4) Employees have no healthcare.

You, uhm, skipped step 3 in your post. Please explain.

 

[Shaw]

I'm living on borrowed time without my medication... it was $15 a month, it is now $125 a month. I needed this public plan a few years ago, it can't happen fast enough (and I hope I make it that long).

Yikes. Is there no public assistance program that can help? I can't believe an employer would cover an employee but not her family. That sucks.

Sadly we fall into the limbo of our health care system... we don't make enough to go it alone but too much for any assistance. Many of my clients fall into the same boat (by being self-employed), and are having similar issues (only some of them have kids to worry about too).

 

[Leroy]

Employers are already abandoning plans based on the fact that they cost so much to provide. I know a guy who I worked with at my local Shopko who has been there for over 20 years and the company cut his hours so he didn't qualify for their insurance. I think it would be great to have a public insurance option available for people to fall back on especially in this age of zero job security.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The place I used to work is abandoning their traditional plan in favor of HSA plans for all employees. And HSAs suck ass. They're maybe a step or two above having no insurance at all. They are certainly unworkable for people who need anything beyond extremely routine, cheap care.

 

[Mallory]

I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

So let me get this straight:

1) Government offers cheaper healthcare.
2) Small businesses tell their employees to get that because it's cheaper.
3) (something something)
4) Employees have no healthcare.

You, uhm, skipped step 3 in your post. Please explain.

Maybe I can offer an example. My health insurance costs $1800 a month. The company pays $1200 and I pay $600.

1) The government offers cheaper healthcare, say $900/month. That's a 50% reduction. Not very likely, but what the heck.

2) My company tells us to get that because it's cheaper. They'll keep their $1200/month and I'll get my $600/month in my paycheck. After taxes of course.

3) My new healthcare plan now costs me an additional $300+/month. So much for that car payment, saving for retirement or helping my last two kids get through college.

4) Some employees wouldn't be able to squeeze the difference out of their monthly income. Thus you end up with employees that have no health care.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

That's a good point, Mallory.

But there are many that while paying more might not be that bad because what you are paying for is jackshit.

 

[Shaw]

2) My company tells us to get that because it's cheaper. They'll keep their $1200/month and I'll get my $600/month in my paycheck. After taxes of course.

Actually, what would most likely happen in your case is that your employer would switch to the government option, keep you paying the same amount and they would pay the a substantially smaller amount and pocket the difference.

Employers dropping coverage all together because of a government health care option would be like employers cutting your salary because the government cut taxes. You don't need as much as you were making before because the government is taking less.

In an ideal world (which this is not), you would pay the same percent for whatever option your employer picked for your benefits and both parties end up better off. But more likely than not, employees are going to need to make a stand to see a cost difference on there end (unless the percentage aspect is already part of their contract).

What we have now is employers who are cutting benefits because they can no longer deal with skyrocketing health care rates. Fewer employers are offering benefits now than a few years ago... and if something doesn't slow or stop the increasing cost of health care, that is when (and why) a company would take away benefits it originally promised to it's employees.

But just out of curiosity Mallory, why wouldn't you consider a company cutting your benefits altogether the same as a decrease in salary? They promised to pay part of your health care costs and then they weren't. Sounds like a decrease in compensation to me.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I've spoken to a number of small business owners who would almost instantly forfeit their employee's health plans were a public plan to gain popular support; this would effectively leave millions more without affordable or reliable healthcare.

So let me get this straight:

1) Government offers cheaper healthcare.
2) Small businesses tell their employees to get that because it's cheaper.
3) (something something)
4) Employees have no healthcare.

You, uhm, skipped step 3 in your post. Please explain.

Maybe I can offer an example. My health insurance costs $1800 a month. The company pays $1200 and I pay $600.

1) The government offers cheaper healthcare, say $900/month. That's a 50% reduction. Not very likely, but what the heck.

2) My company tells us to get that because it's cheaper. They'll keep their $1200/month and I'll get my $600/month in my paycheck. After taxes of course.

3) My new healthcare plan now costs me an additional $300+/month. So much for that car payment, saving for retirement or helping my last two kids get through college.

4) Some employees wouldn't be able to squeeze the difference out of their monthly income. Thus you end up with employees that have no health care.

I am amazed at the cost of health insurance in the USA.

Here is Australia I have a friend who earns 43,000 a year (I helped her fill out her tax return this year so I know the details). She pays the 1.5% Medicare Levy which comes to about $650 a year. She has also decided to take out some private insurance which comes to $1500 a year. So she pays a total of $2145 health insurance a year. That is about $180 a month. For that she has very good coverage though she does have to occasionally make a small co-payment. For example she had a dental bill of $280 and had to pay the first $50 but her private health insurance covered the rest.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I'm living on borrowed time without my medication... it was $15 a month, it is now $125 a month. I needed this public plan a few years ago, it can't happen fast enough (and I hope I make it that long).

Yikes. Is there no public assistance program that can help? I can't believe an employer would cover an employee but not her family. That sucks.

Sadly we fall into the limbo of our health care system... we don't make enough to go it alone but too much for any assistance. Many of my clients fall into the same boat (by being self-employed), and are having similar issues (only some of them have kids to worry about too).

That's horrible. This is exactly why we need this reform.

 

[Rocketman]

So, somebody explain this to me. If employers start dropping their coverage like crazy because they're afear'd of "Obamacare," couldn't those people then join the public option and thus have coverage? Where's the problem here?

The problem is that this creates a race to the bottom; businesses dropping health care will have a competitive advantage over businesses that still provide it, eventually causing everyone to fall back on the public option, with the exception of those who don't qualify for it due to their income.

You'll end up with something resembling the system used in countries like Germany and Belgium; a very wide public umbrella, and small private insurance companies catering to people with higher incomes.

It's not a bad system per sé, but it all depends on what one thinks the economic landscape in health care should look like.

Of course, there are easy ways to avoid the above scenario; making employer contributions mandatory would be one of them.