'Profit and Lace' Why do people hate you so?

[bentbastard]

Hi,

I've been contemplating 'Profit and Lace' (you know, the Quark sex-change episode). I must admit, I like the episode. But I cant help but accept that it does tend to appear on many people's 'worse episode ever' list.

So why do you dislike it?

Comments welcome

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

There is no one reason you can answer in a poll. the entire thing is just a massively terrible concoction. "'Drag' is unfunny & misogynistic (woman-hating)" is probably the best option, but throw in the usual Ferengi jokes which arent funny, the stupid pointless plot, terrible performances... its an all around grade F result.

 

[Anna Yolei]

I liked the Ferengi. Hell, I'd take the worst Ferengi episode over the best TNG or Voyager holodeck episode any day of the week.

Maybe it had to do with all the bashing this episode's gotten by the time I finally got around to watching it, but I didn't find it all that bad.

 

[nx1701g]

I think it was because (and Armin Shimmerman said pretty much the same thing) in the end Quark didn't learn anything from his experience. He seemed to show signs of becoming less sexist in scenes then - a second later - he goes back to normal Quark.

 

[Dale]

I loved any and all episodes focusing on Quark and the Ferengi... and the results of your poll thus far seem to be contradicting your premise...

 

[Kegek]

Hey, I love the Ferengi. I love Quark, Brunt, Rom. 'House of Quark', 'Little Green Men', 'The Magnificent Ferengi', there's a lot of really funny Ferengi stuff out there. Quark is one of DS9's most engaging and nuanced characters, too. From his observations on how the Ferengi are better than the Federation in 'The Jem'Hadar', the brutal nature of humanity in 'The Siege of AR-558', or his insistence he will remain true to the principles of greed and opportunism in 'The Dogs of War', he's just one of those DS9 characters who got all the good lines.

'Profit and Lace' just comes off as a little, well, contrived. Quark-in-drag isn't funny. Quark seducing Nilva isn't funny. It's absurd, and I definately see how the writers were trying to go for the Ferengi-to-end-all-Ferengi episodes... but the end result simply blew up in their faces. I don't loathe it the way some people do, I just find it excruiating.

 

[toughlittleship]

Its not that bad an episode. The performances of the main, recurring and guest actors (particularly Shimerman) were great.

 

[Tomalak]

I quite liked it too. Great comic performances for the first half, though it does come off the boil when 'Lumba' turns up. Still, there are some decent lines in the Nilva dinner scene, and it's all quite pleasant.

"'Acting' Grand Nagus" always makes me chuckle.

 

[Tomalak]

nx1701g said:
I think it was because (and Armin Shimmerman said pretty much the same thing) in the end Quark didn't learn anything from his experience. He seemed to show signs of becoming less sexist in scenes then - a second later - he goes back to normal Quark.

No, he takes the feminist angle on board, but the masculine side to him couldn't help but go for a bit of oo-mox, especially since Aluura seemed to up for it.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I dislike it for many reasons...but I think my issue with the drag thing is that the entire episode felt like it was WRITTEN in order to show Quark in drag and get a cheap laugh.

It felt not like the drag thing was merely an element of the story...but like it WAS the story: the whole reason the episode was written.

And that sort of gimmicky foolishness was generally below the DS9 writing staff.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I liked the episode... The fact is, Quark's never really gonna learn... He didn't from Audrid.
Quark's idea of hell must be being condemned to being a girl.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I'm surprised most people who voted (until now) seem to like the ep....I do, for one. It's not terribly intelligent, nor is the humour all too refined and such....still, I watch it now and then and manage to enjoy it every time.

 

[Hermiod]

I don't like it when Star Trek makes ridiculous changes and then resets them using a magic wand at the end. That goes for Tuvix's creation and separation, Janeway and Tom turning in to lizards and then being restored (with no visible differences, not even their hair or anything), everyone being turned in to various prehistoric creatures and then changed back and especially Quark being turned in to a woman and then suddenly being changed back. (And that they had the facilities to do this on a broken down old Cardassian space station)

 

[Peach Wookiee]

CommanderRaytas said:
I'm surprised most people who voted (until now) seem to like the ep....I do, for one. It's not terribly intelligent, nor is the humour all too refined and such....still, I watch it now and then and manage to enjoy it every time.

An ep doesn't always have to be intelligent for fans to like it. If you were fed an unending diet of the intelligent stuff, it might get boring. So occasionally, one needs a little junk food.

 

[Kegek]

Peach Wookiee said:
An ep doesn't always have to be intelligent for fans to like it. If you were fed an unending diet of the intelligent stuff, it might get boring. So occasionally, one needs a little junk food.

I for one will never tire of well-written, intelligent humour... and frankly, most crass jokes don't entertain me at all. DS9 can be funny. 'In the Cards', anyone?

Ferengi, IMHO, can be funny. 'The Magnificent Ferengi' was made the very same year as this travesty.

But 'Profit and Lace'... isn't funny. And that, for me, kills the show - it isn't funny and it's not trying to be anything but funny, and therefore it is excruiating.

 

[DanTheGrey]

I didn't answer any of them because none of those is the reason. The comedy such as it was was generally forced and badly timed. I find that I only like Ferengi as supporting characters, especially when you have many of them in the episode at once. And the topic was already done in a couple of previous episodes (the one with the woman impersonating a male Ferengi in the GQ and Quark's mother) so I got the whole duplicity thing of having a female earning profit.

Overall the whole thing fell flat for me the way that most of the Ferengi episodes did.

 

[Darth_Pazuzu]

I can't vote for any of the options given to me. Granted, I didn't particularly care for the episode, but that wasn't for any of the reasons listed!

 

[startrekwatcher]

I enjoyed it for the most part and really hadn't expected to given my experience with DS9 Ferengi episodes. I don't think it is stellar and is probably about a 6 on a scale of 10 being on average or slightly above average. I thought Rom, for instance teaching Lumba how to catwalk was pretty funny and Armin made a pretty hilarious female.

I don't really see why anyone would find it offensive or mysogynstic. Taken in context and as a farce I really can't see it trying to mock women.

I certainly enjoyed it more than Family Business, Prophet MOtive, Bar Association, Ferengi Love Songs. I also never understood the praise of Little Green Men. I still think The Magnificent Ferengi is the best Ferengi comedy episode the show ever produced rating it an 8 on a scale of 10. I was also surprised that I enjoyed for the most part the Ferengi portions of The Dogs of War.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The correct answer is: IT WASN'T FUNNY!

 

[Navaros]

I woulda voted for a combination of the first 3 options, only excluding the misogynistic part.

Seeing Quark like that was an obscene affront to my eyes.

In addition to that, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why would Quark ever agree to have his member chopped off, especially for a trivial reason. In keeping with his character, he wouldn't. The idea that he agreed to have his member chopped off is absurd.