Prime Minister Harper suspends Canadian Parliament

[Canadave]

The Canadian political drama continues as the Governor-General agrees to Prime Minister Stephen Harper's request to prorogue Parliament, suspending it until January 26th. Faced with a confidence vote on Monday, it was almost inevitable that the Conservative government would lose the confidence of the House, making way for a Liberal-New Democratic coalition government.

Full article from the CBC

Personally, this move makes me rather uncomfortable. There are reasons to prorogue Parliament, but this isn't one of them—it's just Harper making a desperate move and trying to cling to power. One of the fundamental tenants of our democracy is that the government and Prime Minister rule only so long as they have the confidence of the House. Right now, the Tories don't have that, and they should have to face a vote. This whole thing is a mess.

 

[John Picard]

It's comforting to know that the US Government isn't the only one that conveniently ignores its Constitution.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

It's comforting to know that the US Government isn't the only one that conveniently ignores its Constitution.

This isn't technically against the constitution, it's just a chicken shit self centred move from the conservative party. So nothing really new.

 

[hamudm]

At the same time, I'm not comfortable knowing that the Libs have taken it upon themselves strongarm my democratically elected government out of power. This is something I'd expect in Pakistan, not here.

What a fucking joke.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

At the same time, I'm not comfortable knowing that the Libs have taken it upon themselves strongarm my democratically elected government out of power. This is something I'd expect in Pakistan, not here.

What a fucking joke.

They're not. A Liberal-NDP coalition would be just as democratic as a Tory minority. A party can only rule if it has the confidence of the majority of the house. Only then is it supported by the people.

 

[Goliath]

Personally, this move makes me rather uncomfortable. There are reasons to prorogue Parliament, but this isn't one of them—it's just Harper making a desperate move and trying to cling to power.

I agree with this.

All week long, the Conservative Party and its supporters have been squealing like trapped rats and shrieking like hysterical women about how "undemocratic" the proposed coalition was--how it was an unconstitutional "coup".

And yet, when the Governor General prorogues the House of Commons, and essentially suspends all parliamentary business for two months, do we hear any complaints from these same Conservatives? Do we hear any fear-mongering about "democracy in peril"?

Of course not. Not a peep. Suddely, now that their party will remain in power for at least another two months, Conservatives are perfectly happy to let the parliamentary system function.

Disraeli was right. A Conservative government really is just an organised hypocrisy.

One of the fundamental tenants of our democracy is that the government and Prime Minister rule only so long as they have the confidence of the House. Right now, the Tories don't have that, and they should have to face a vote. This whole thing is a mess.

Actually, I disagree with you here. The government is assumed to have the confidence of the House until it doesn't--that is to say, until it actually loses a vote of confidence.

None of the fundamental tenets of our democracy have been violated this week. Both the Opposition and the Government have been acting within their legal rights--no matter what Conservative drama queens think.

I only hope that the Prime Minister will learn the right lesson from this fiasco: namely, that he is still the leader of a minority government, and cannot simply do whatever he pleases.

If this crisis humbles Harper, and encourages him to return to the more cautious and conciliatory line of the past two years, then something good may come of this after all.

 

[Count Zero]

So, who makes decisions and passes laws in Canada while the Parliament is suspended? It strikes me as a potentially very dangerous flaw in the Canadian constitution to allow for something like this. I can't imagine it serving any good purpose.

 

[Goliath]

At the same time, I'm not comfortable knowing that the Libs have taken it upon themselves strongarm my democratically elected government out of power. This is something I'd expect in Pakistan, not here.

What a fucking joke.

No. It's your post that's the fucking joke. And not a very funny one, at that.

There are two major fallacies in your post.

First, the idea that the Harper ministry is the "democratically-elected government."

Canadians do not vote for governments. They vote for Members of Parliament. Whoever can command the confidence of a majority of these Members of Parliament becomes the government, by appointment.

No government was "elected" in the last general election. Harper was Prime Minister before the election was held, and will remain Prime Minister until he loses a confidence vote, or until he resigns.

What's more, nobody "won" the last election. No party won a majority in Parliament. No party even came close to winning a majority of the popular vote.

I don't know what country's governmental system you've been studying, but here in Canada, when no party wins a majority in parliament, the prime minister, if he wants to remain in office, must then negotiate with the other parties for their support.

If he's a good negotiator, then he can avoid a vote of non-confidence, and remain in office. If he's a bad negotiator, then he can't.

And this brings me to your second fallacy: that the Opposition was somehow "strong-arming" the government out of office, with all its implications of a Pakistani-style coup d'etat.

There was no "strong-arming" by the Opposition this week. Prime Minister Harper and his Conservatives simply lost the support of the other parties in Parliament, who decided instead to throw their support behind someone else.

The only people who have tried to "strong-arm" anyone this week have been the Conservatives, with their hysterical fear-mongering, and their petulant threats of mass resignation in case of a vote of non-confidence.

Your post, in fact, is a perfect reflection of the Conservative Party's disinformation campaign. You've swallowed their lies, and regurgitated them here--apparently without even bothering to digest them first.

"Your democratically-elected government," indeed. This week we've found out exactly what "democracy" means to Conservatives.

It means one-party rule. It means permanent Conservative government. Their contempt for the parliamentary system is exceeded only by their sense of entitlement.

And that is the biggest fucking joke of all.

 

[Goliath]

So, who makes decisions and passes laws in Canada while the Parliament is suspended? It strikes me as a potentially very dangerous flaw in the Canadian constitution to allow for something like this. I can't imagine it serving any good purpose.

Not really. All this means is that no new legislation can be passed. The government and the civil service continue to operate as normal.

I'm sure that in Germany, there are times when the Bundestag is not in session. The government carries on during those times--just as it will carry on here.

 

[Count Zero]

I'm sure that in Germany, there are times when the Bundestag is not in session. The government carries on during those times--just as it will carry on here.

Yes, sure. They have quite extensive holidays... . However, I was under the impression that Parliament remains suspended until this date in January, while in the case of holidays the members of parliament would be called back if necessary.
So, theoretically, what would happen if there was some sort of crisis that made swift legislation neccessary, like giving money to flood victims or something like that?

 

[Canadave]

I'm sure that in Germany, there are times when the Bundestag is not in session. The government carries on during those times--just as it will carry on here.

Yes, sure. They have quite extensive holidays... . However, I was under the impression that Parliament remains suspended until this date in January, while in the case of holidays the members of parliament would be called back if necessary.
So, theoretically, what would happen if there was some sort of crisis that made swift legislation neccessary, like giving money to flood victims or something like that?

So far as I know, an emergency session of the House can still be called if necessary.

Rangifer, that's a good point about the Tories still technically having confidence, even though it's pretty clear they don't. Even so, they should be facing that vote, not putting it off.

 

[Mooch]

I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. I'm not convinced there is an economic "crisis" in Canada. I'm not convinced that the economy is doomed unless the Coalition takes over. I'm not saying they are wrong to take over, but they could have done it at any point in the last 2 years. This whole thing is all about the vote money, and nothing else. I think it's all pretty silly.

 

[Trippy]

At the same time, I'm not comfortable knowing that the Libs have taken it upon themselves strongarm my democratically elected government out of power. This is something I'd expect in Pakistan, not here.

What a fucking joke.

No. It's your post that's the fucking joke. And not a very funny one, at that.

There are two major fallacies in your post.

First, the idea that the Harper ministry is the "democratically-elected government."

Canadians do not vote for governments. They vote for Members of Parliament. Whoever can command the confidence of a majority of these Members of Parliament becomes the government, by appointment.

No government was "elected" in the last general election. Harper was Prime Minister before the election was held, and will remain Prime Minister until he loses a confidence vote, or until he resigns.

What's more, nobody "won" the last election. No party won a majority in Parliament. No party even came close to winning a majority of the popular vote.

I don't know what country's governmental system you've been studying, but here in Canada, when no party wins a majority in parliament, the prime minister, if he wants to remain in office, must then negotiate with the other parties for their support.

If he's a good negotiator, then he can avoid a vote of non-confidence, and remain in office. If he's a bad negotiator, then he can't.

And this brings me to your second fallacy: that the Opposition was somehow "strong-arming" the government out of office, with all its implications of a Pakistani-style coup d'etat.

There was no "strong-arming" by the Opposition this week. Prime Minister Harper and his Conservatives simply lost the support of the other parties in Parliament, who decided instead to throw their support behind someone else.

The only people who have tried to "strong-arm" anyone this week have been the Conservatives, with their hysterical fear-mongering, and their petulant threats of mass resignation in case of a vote of non-confidence.

Your post, in fact, is a perfect reflection of the Conservative Party's disinformation campaign. You've swallowed their lies, and regurgitated them here--apparently without even bothering to digest them first.

"Your democratically-elected government," indeed. This week we've found out exactly what "democracy" means to Conservatives.

It means one-party rule. It means permanent Conservative government. Their contempt for the parliamentary system is exceeded only by their sense of entitlement.

And that is the biggest fucking joke of all.

QFT and Bravo! No one seems to understand our government...lest of all many Canadians! I teach Civics (mainly an English teacher) and am constantly amazed about the lack of information about how Parliament works or how the elections work! Sheesh, if you vote, you should know that on the ballot, it doesn't say Stephen Harper, Stefan Dion, Jack Layton, Elizabeth May or Gilles Duceppe, unless you live in their ridings.

 

[kissthestar]

Governments are shaking it up all over the place. Terrorism is on the increase. People all over are plainly pissed. If it isn't about the world economy, what is it about?

 

[Holdfast]

... All this means is that no new legislation can be passed. The government and the civil service continue to operate as normal...

Ah, Canada has finally realised what Conservative administration should be like.

 

[Canadave]

QFT and Bravo! No one seems to understand our government...lest of all many Canadians! I teach Civics (mainly an English teacher) and am constantly amazed about the lack of information about how Parliament works or how the elections work! Sheesh, if you vote, you should know that on the ballot, it doesn't say Stephen Harper, Stefan Dion, Jack Layton, Elizabeth May or Gilles Duceppe, unless you live in their ridings.

I can't count how many times lately I've told people that we elect Parliaments, not governments.

 

[hamudm]

At the same time, I'm not comfortable knowing that the Libs have taken it upon themselves strongarm my democratically elected government out of power. This is something I'd expect in Pakistan, not here.

What a fucking joke.

No. It's your post that's the fucking joke. And not a very funny one, at that.

There are two major fallacies in your post.

First, the idea that the Harper ministry is the "democratically-elected government."

Canadians do not vote for governments. They vote for Members of Parliament. Whoever can command the confidence of a majority of these Members of Parliament becomes the government, by appointment.

No government was "elected" in the last general election. Harper was Prime Minister before the election was held, and will remain Prime Minister until he loses a confidence vote, or until he resigns.

What's more, nobody "won" the last election. No party won a majority in Parliament. No party even came close to winning a majority of the popular vote.

I don't know what country's governmental system you've been studying, but here in Canada, when no party wins a majority in parliament, the prime minister, if he wants to remain in office, must then negotiate with the other parties for their support.

If he's a good negotiator, then he can avoid a vote of non-confidence, and remain in office. If he's a bad negotiator, then he can't.

And this brings me to your second fallacy: that the Opposition was somehow "strong-arming" the government out of office, with all its implications of a Pakistani-style coup d'etat.

There was no "strong-arming" by the Opposition this week. Prime Minister Harper and his Conservatives simply lost the support of the other parties in Parliament, who decided instead to throw their support behind someone else.

The only people who have tried to "strong-arm" anyone this week have been the Conservatives, with their hysterical fear-mongering, and their petulant threats of mass resignation in case of a vote of non-confidence.

Your post, in fact, is a perfect reflection of the Conservative Party's disinformation campaign. You've swallowed their lies, and regurgitated them here--apparently without even bothering to digest them first.

"Your democratically-elected government," indeed. This week we've found out exactly what "democracy" means to Conservatives.

It means one-party rule. It means permanent Conservative government. Their contempt for the parliamentary system is exceeded only by their sense of entitlement.

And that is the biggest fucking joke of all.

My apologies if my post didn't live up to your standard. I mean I realize I was very nasty to you and perhaps deserving of your vitriol (TNZ be damned of course! ).

Even though I don't watch television, I can see it being easy for me to "swallow their lies (Conservatives)," after all they're everywhere! Did I mention I failed grade 10 Social Studies (yes, yes I did mention that in my original post).

But let me address your main point. When I went to vote at the polling station in BC here, I could have sworn that I saw Steven Harper on the ballot! I see my mistake (Thanks Trip-the-Halls!); I thought I was voting in my Lord and Saviour not just a representative of my riding in parliament.

It's not the system that's a little messed up I know, but me. It's good to know that our politicians are busy bumming each other instead of doing something constructive. I see great things coming from a Liberal/NDP coalition.

My mistake. I'm going to go Seppuku myself now.

Good day.

 

[broberfett]

Suspending parliament doesn't alarm Canadians? It makes me think of Charles I. Didn't Queen Elizabeth approve this suspension?

 

[Colonel Green]

Suspending parliament doesn't alarm Canadians? It makes me think of Charles I. Didn't Queen Elizabeth approve this suspension?

Queen Elizabeth approves EVERYTHING the Canadian parliament does through her rep the Governor General.

This doesn`t alarm me any more than a deadlock in Congress would alarm the average American. It bugs me, sure, but doesn`t alarm me.

 

[trampledamage]

Suspending parliament doesn't alarm Canadians? It makes me think of Charles I. Didn't Queen Elizabeth approve this suspension?

It's not like it's been suspended indefinitely. We're not installing martial law here or anything.

Given the state of the economy, I actually quite like the idea of the MPs concentrating on creating the next budget. Just so long as they don't all knock off early for Christmas!