PRIME DIRECTIVE question #1

[RobertScorpio]

Are there planets in Federation space that have sentient life but are not yet aware of the Federation. And if there are such planets and they were threatened by a rogue comet, for example, would the Federation save such a planet or let 'nature' take its course.

I know it may seem like a simple question. And the answer is simple if the planet exists out side of Federation space, I guess. Prime Directive would apply.

But what If a rogue comet was threatening Earth in Picard's time, I have to think the Federation would take measures to alter the course of the comet. Would that same step be taken for a world with in Federation bounderies, but was not yet 'aware' of the Feds.

What do some of you think?

 

[mvkemp]

They tried something similar in a TNG episode called Pen Pals. But they ended up saving the planet and rationalized it away because Data had made contact with a young girl who was randomly sending out communication signals. Since they violated the PD, why not violate it a bit more and save the planet.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I had thought of that episode as well. But I am not sure if that planet was part of the Federation, which goes to another question.

Veridian 3. Picard decides to go back in time and stop Soran because he destroys Veridian 3. Veridian 3 has a pre-warp society, and thus is not a member of the Federation. So...i have two questions..

Was Veridian 3 considered a Federation planet even though it was not a member of the Federation.

If Veridian 3 was threatened by a rogue comet, instead of Soran, would Picard/Federation have altered the comet to save the population? Or did Picard save the planet simply because it's destruction was caused by the inability to stop Soran?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

This thread brings me to the problem I have with Federation Space, in 'Insurrection' the Briar Patch is within Federation space and so is the planet with the previously believed pre-warp civilisation, how can the Federation claim that area of space as Federation space? the area of space around the planet should belong to those people whether they're pre-warp or not, lets imagine they were pre-warp and they discover faster than light travel, do they have to ask Federation permission to leave orbit because they're entering Federation space?

Its never sat well with me when the Federation supposedly claims territory such as Star Systems with pre-warp civilisations.

 

[Timo]

It looks to me as if our heroes are always saving ignorant natives from natural and unnatural calamities - the PD would not apply as long as the saving is done in secrecy from the would-be victims.

Kirk started this with "Paradise Syndrome", trying to save a random planet from an asteroid collision even though such a collision would have been a most natural occasion. Picard's antics in "Pen Pals" and ST:GEN would be but a direct continuation of that.

TNG "Homeward" sometimes stands out as an instance of Picard quoting PD as the reason not to save natives. But in that case, there was little or nothing that could have been done to save the natives in secrecy (although Worf's stepbrother eventually achieves just that).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mvkemp]

Veridian 3 is different. It wasn't a naturally occurring event, but rather a person whom the Federation is aware of, artificially altering the star. Also, he was a criminal and stopping him was what Picard was after, saving all those people was just a bonus.

If not for Soran, I doubt the Enterprise would ever even go to the Veridian system and be faced with the option to alter a comet's path. If any Federation presence was there, they would be hidden to observe the culture, and would probably just leave when the comet got close.

And planets like that aren't considered part of the Federation. They just happen to lie within Federation space. It's like an open space inside of a sponge. It's within the sponge, but there's no sponge there.

 

[Michael]

mvkemp said:
And planets like that aren't considered part of the Federation. They just happen to lie within Federation space. It's like an open space inside of a sponge. It's within the sponge, but there's no sponge there.

Sponge you say?

 

[RobertScorpio]

So then, isn't the Federation really playing God for it's own gain? Picard saved Veridian 3 so he could arrest Soran and take him to face justice? That was his motive?

And since Soran's actions were not done with any knowledge of the future, his actions happened in the natural progression of time. It seems to me Picard determined that the events that played out were wrong because they were set into motion by a rogue criminal..well..so what? You could make that arguement for anyone killed by the actions of another...

I think the Federation cherry picks its application of the Prime Directive. They break it and follow it based on no real guidelines.

 

[mvkemp]

RobertScorpio said:
So then, isn't the Federation really playing God for it's own gain? Picard saved Veridian 3 so he could arrest Soran and take him to face justice? That was his motive?

But Soran's actions were the only violation of the Prime Directive, which Picard is supposed to do anything he can to prevent. The Veridian star blowing up was not a natural act. Therefore, going back to prevent it is not a violation of the Prime Directive, but doing what he can to prevent the violation from happening in the first place.

But towards your last point, they do sometimes cherry pick at the PD.

 

[captcalhoun]

it was Veridian IV that was inhabited, not III.

as far as pre-warp planets and their 'space' goes, that's a key plot point in the novel Prime Directive, which explains that pre-warp planets are often granted neighbouring empty systems 'in trust' for later development.

 

[S'kai]

In TOS "The Paradise Syndrome" the Enterprise's mission is to destroy an asteroid before it wipes out the American Indian planet. This was ordered before the crew was aware that a deflector was installed on the planet by a previous civilization. This would seem to answer th OP as "yes."

 

[RobertScorpio]

Skai said:
In TOS "The Paradise Syndrome" the Enterprise's mission is to destroy an asteroid before it wipes out the American Indian planet. This was ordered before the crew was aware that a deflector was installed on the planet by a previous civilization. This would seem to answer th OP as "yes."

And so how does that square with PEN PALS?

 

[Timo]

I'd argue that the odds for covert saviourship were better in "Paradise Syndrome" than in "Pen Pals", and worse still in "Homeward", which is why Picard hesitated with saving Sarjenka and outright refused with saving the Boraalans.

A bunch of transplanted Americans wouldn't really be able to observe Kirk's asteroid-diversion maneuver. A planet full of technologically advanced natives should notice something amiss when their very crust was being tampered with.

Timo Saloniemi