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Ponder this: The impact on Trek if there had been no TWOK.

Jedi Marso

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And by extension, no Search for Spock or Voyage Home, since the three comprise a fairly tightly interconnected storyline.

TWOK is arguably the best Trek movie to date, but beyond that, it has had an impact on the franchise at large that goes beyond day-to-day thought. I mean...

Ponder how much of current Trek calls back to, or relates to Khan.
Ponder the absence of Carol Marcus, David Marcus, and Saavik from the franchise.
Ponder the absence of the monster maroons.
Ponder the absence of the Kobayashi Maru test.
Ponder the absence of the katra.
Ponder the absence of Genesis
Ponder the absence of the Bird of Prey class of ship!
Ponder the way that post TWOK, Trek went from being a show about the exploration of the human condition to largely a pew-pew franchise, especially in movie theaters.
Ponder what we might have gotten instead, in terms of a movie franchise.

Ponder these things, then...DISCUSS!
 
Good. Maybe we'll get Phase 2. Maybe a follow up episode were Kirk goes back to that planet and discovers a new civilization that Khan founded, and now it is preparing to launch an attack.

No absurdly overdressed uniforms. I used to like the maroons but that has waned.

Yeah, I see a lot of positives.
 
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I think best case scenario of no WoK is maybe some tv movies. Certainly no TNG, DS9, Voyager, etc…

we might have gotten a full on reboot at some point ala Ron Moore’s BSG. But it’s certainly not the franchise it is today.
 
So, what, in this scenario, there is no TWOK or any movies at all besides TMP? I dunno, if it didn't happen in the 80s, then either the 90s or early 2000s would see a Trek revival of some kind, whether it be TNG or new attempt at a movie reboot of TOS.

Actually, just for shits and giggles, let's assume TNG still did premiere in 1987 pretty much exactly as is, only there had been no movies since TMP. Off the top of my head, they'd have to created 100% new sets, as I doubt the TMP sets would have been held in storage since 1979 if there had been no other activity in the franchise in the interim. Likewise, aside from the refit Enterprise, there were no ship models from the movies to use, so if the refit Enterprise model were still around, it would likely be used as the other Starfleet ship the Enterprise D meets up with. Hmm, assuming the rest of the franchise still occurs aside from the TOS movies (which I'm assuming we don't even get TFF or TUC in this scenario) let's look at some points posited in the OP:
Ponder how much of current Trek calls back to, or relates to Khan.
Khan still exists, as he was introduced in Space Seed. I imagine if the franchise still wanted to make a boogeyman out of genetic enhancements, they could still reference him. Just instead of doing a Ryan George impression of saying "He's from The Wrath of Khan!" when they hear him, references to him would just be an easter egg for TOS fans.
Ponder the absence of Carol Marcus, David Marcus, and Saavik from the franchise.
Carol Marcus is the only one of those who has been used in the franchise outside of the TOS movies. So we'd lose Janeway mentioning her in The Omega Directive and Alice Eve either wouldn't be in STID or would be playing another character, Janet Wallace, maybe? Okay, writing this sentence makes me realize STID would be a very different movie with no TWOK around, but anyway.
Ponder the absence of the monster maroons.
Then in the TNG episodes that featured them we'd see instead the TMP uniforms or if they weren't available, they just stick with the TNG S1 uniforms.
Ponder the absence of the Kobayashi Maru test.
Was never referenced in the franchise again until the Abrams movies, so very minimal impact. Besides, Trek XI, we wouldn't have an episode of Disco or Prodigy with no Kobayashi Maru.
Ponder the absence of the katra.
Isn't really a major component of the franchise anyway. Besides TWOK and TSFS, the only other times the katra has been featured was in Enterprise's Vulcan reformation arc, and in Disco with Michael carrying a part of Sarek's katra. And in both instances, if there had been nothing previously established, I'm sure something similar would have been thought up.
Ponder the absence of Genesis
The franchise never referenced it again anyway.
Ponder the absence of the Bird of Prey class of ship!
Then they'd just reuse footage of the Klingon battlecruisers from TMP, which several early TNG episodes did anyway. Eventually a new model would have been built, just with no BoP and its pre-existing stock footage, they'd have to use the new ship more often.
Ponder the way that post TWOK, Trek went from being a show about the exploration of the human condition to largely a pew-pew franchise, especially in movie theaters.
I mean, that's not that hard to imagine. Action sells, and TOS itself was sold as an action show. Factor in the negativity TMP received in the theatres, and it's not hard to imagine any future endeavors in the franchise would be more action oriented.
Ponder what we might have gotten instead, in terms of a movie franchise.
Already did that at the start of my post.
 
Khan still exists, as he was introduced in Space Seed. I imagine if the franchise still wanted to make a boogeyman out of genetic enhancements, they could still reference him. Just instead of doing a Ryan George impression of saying "He's from The Wrath of Khan!" when they hear him, references to him would just be an easter egg for TOS fans.

Yes, he would still exist. But can you imagine Space Seed being 'just another' episode of Trek (and not one of the great ones, really, in the context of no movie stemming from it), that was only remembered as "that episode with the guy from Fantasy Island"?
 
Yes, he would still exist. But can you imagine Space Seed being 'just another' episode of Trek (and not one of the great ones, really, in the context of no movie stemming from it), that was only remembered as "that episode with the guy from Fantasy Island"?
Depends, some might argue Space Seed was something more than "just one episode" even without TWOK. After all, there must be a reason it was chosen in the first place as the episode to get a movie sequel to.
 
Depends, some might argue Space Seed was something more than "just one episode" even without TWOK. After all, there must be a reason it was chosen in the first place as the episode to get a movie sequel to.

IIRC, I think I remember Harve Bennet saying in an interview once that they screened every episode of TOS looking for a plot point they could revisit / expand on in a new movie, and Space Seed was the one that caught their eye, probably because of Montalban's star power coupled with the fact that Khan and the fate of the augments was a hanging chad of sort in the Trek 'verse. Other than that, I don't think there was anything super special about that particular episode.
 
Imagine all the fan speculation about what happened to Khan and his people after being marooned if there had been no TWoK.

It would be interesting to see if the original episode left enough of an impression with fans for anyone in the future to pick it up and run with a fan fic, and what form those stories might have taken. (Or even a published novel.)
 
We'd have got some other Trek film, if not Roddenberry's Star Trek II, then some new story. At the very least a TV movie, maybe like one of those feature length reunion episodes shows did. The Star Trek Holiday Special.
One of the things I could see not happening in other scripts is the Enterprise being a training ship or being retired. That could have been interesting going forward if they wanted to continue the franchise and dropped some or all of the original cast. A new crew inheriting the NCC-1701 as a series perhaps in the late 80s or early 90s, perhaps.
 
No TWOK? It effects a lot, and not just Star Trek.

The Star Trek movies don't go any further. And without the movies, Paramount doesn't decide to keep the momentum going with more series. Star Trek gets rebooted sooner than 2009. Maybe the '90s, back when they turning '60s shows into movies. Without any shows or movies in-between to have built up the franchise and keep it going, this hypothetical Star Trek movie does about as well as 1998's Lost In Space and doesn't go any further.

So there's no TNG, no DS9, and no Ron Moore on those shows, which means that the '00s BSG also takes on a very different form. For one thing, because Ron Moore wouldn't be there and would probably have a very different career if not for Trek. And, for another thing, this version of BSG wouldn't be made as a direct reaction to all the things that couldn't or wouldn't have been done on Berman Trek.

TMP and TWOK were both necessary in order to bring Star Trek back permanently. TMP to show that there was an audience. TWOK to show that Star Trek could be made economically in a post-Star Wars environment.
 
Isn't it possible that if they didn't make TWOK they could have made some other movie based on TOS characters and situations?
 
Isn't it possible that if they didn't make TWOK they could have made some other movie based on TOS characters and situations?
Possible, yes, but who knows how good the script would've been?

They had five different versions of a second Star Trek movie before Nick Meyer combined everything they liked best about each of them and wrote a new script based on all of those.

And before TMP, finding the right script for a Star Trek film was like pulling teeth. A ridiculous number of concepts were pitched and rejected, before they got to Planet of the Titans, then the plug was pulled on that one too.

I think once they had TWOK, it gave them a direction to go in, a basic framework, and an overall story to continue with. I think without TWOK that's a lot harder. TWOK, TSFS, TVH, and TUC don't feel like a collection of films, they feel like an actual Film Series. They cracked something the TNG Films never did. The stories spring from, "What happens next?" Like "What if the Klingons find out about Genesis?", "How do we bring back Spock?", "What kinds of twists and turns can we have now?", and in TVH it gives them something to react to, "The last two films have been so serious, let's lighten up!" Then, finally, in TUC, they look at how things are changing IRL between the USA and the then-USSR, translate that into Star Trek, and used the backstory from the previous films to inform how the characters would relate to those stories. And, by happy coincidence, it tied into the framework of TNG.

That's something Rick Berman couldn't understand with the TNG Films. He and his team didn't know how to turn it into an actual film series. It was just four new adventures. FC was the best one because it was a sequel to the closest thing TNG had to a movie up that point: "The Best of Both Worlds", which made it feel like it was building upon TNG instead of just being some random, dumb adventure. It's also why I like Picard. It did everything I think the TNG Movies should've done.

Long story short, I think TWOK is super-important, when it comes to Star Trek. No TWOK? No rest of the franchise.
 
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TWOK was inevitable…in terms of style. Yes TMP was a bit of a let-down…but 1982 was THE year of Sci-fi.

ALIEN made space dangerous.

Wrath of Khan was a slasher movie…and John Carpenter as much as Lucas was an influence.

Now…imagine if I could go back in time to 1978..with a copy of TWOK…and made it the FIRST film.

The Hoopla!

Had I that Time Machine…and better deep fakes….I might have had David and Saavik and one or two others escape Enterprise…which perishes with Reliant.

They hop in a shuttle and we say goodbye to the old crew and begin anew.

For all we know, maybe the Genesis Wave caused the Nexus.

That might also have been a good time to do a Trek/Wars crossover with those two being the same age as Luke and Leia…for a stepped up RETURN OF THE JEDI featuring them being thrown clear of the odd effects of the Genesis Force.
 
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So there's no TNG, no DS9, and no Ron Moore on those shows, which means that the '00s BSG also takes on a very different form. For one thing, because Ron Moore wouldn't be there and would probably have a very different career if not for Trek. And, for another thing, this version of BSG wouldn't be made as a direct reaction to all the things that couldn't or wouldn't have been done on Berman Trek.

Interesting. I never paused to consider the effect on nu-BSG this would have had, or if nu-BSG would have happened at all. Actually, given the dearth of new creative ideas in Hollywood it probably still would have, but in a completely different form to what we got.
 
Semi-related: I remember seeing the trailer for "Cause and Effect" and when the Bozeman emerged from the rift I thought it might be Reliant and my mind went wild pondering what that might mean.
 
Semi-related: I remember seeing the trailer for "Cause and Effect" and when the Bozeman emerged from the rift I thought it might be Reliant and my mind went wild pondering what that might mean.
Even though at that point we'd already seen multiple Miranda class ships on TNG?
 
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