Political systems in Star Trek

[The Overlord]

What political systems do the various civilzations have in the Star trek universe:

The Federation and Bajor are both democracies, with the Federation being a social democracy.

The Cardassians are a military dictatorship.

The Klingons have a feudal system with a noble class.

The Borg are a warped version of a communist dictatorship.

The Dominion is a theocracy and a warped version of Plato's ideal society.

There are a few that aren't very clear, the Romulans are supposed to be either the Roman Republic or the Roman Empire, but that comparison falls flat because the Romans were not xenophobia and granted citizenship to conquered lands as well as recruiting soldiers from these occupied lands. The Romulans never seem to use soldiers from conquered lands. Plus its not clear who wields the real power, the Senate or the Praetor.

The Ferengi political system is also unclear. It doesn't seem like the Negus is elected, but Ferengi Alliance seems like a society that would stress rabid individualism, so it doesn't seem like a dictatorship. If I had to guess, it seems like a chauvinistic, libertarian meritocracy, where for males achieve power and status through their merits, with females being non persons.

 

[Silvercrest]

It's also amusing to note how many races pay lip service to an "empire" of some kind, and how few true empires there actually are. The Cardassians and Ferengi both referred to their respective empires in their early appearances. The names "Cardassian Union" and "Ferengi Alliance" appeared later. Then there's the Klingon Empire, whose emperor is only a figurehead when they bother having one at all, and the Romulan Star Empire, whose emperor has never even been mentioned onscreen.

 

[Levir]

There is no such thing as a communist dictatorship. Communism is a society without a state or classes, where the workers own the means of production; the ultimate democracy.

 

[The Green Mushroom]

There is no such thing as a communist dictatorship. Communism is a society without a state or classes, where the workers own the means of production; the ultimate democracy.

Still sounds like the Borg to me. In the Communist Manifesto Marx argued that the ideal communist system would be run by the dictatorship of the proletariat--ie the workers have all the power, I am unsure how democratically that was supposed to work beyond the level of the factory. Instead communist states perverted and became dictatorships over the proletariat.

But at any rate, the Borg "government" would be exactly like what Marx would want.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

You don't need an emperor to run have an empire though. Empire is when a state annexes other teritories.

 

[Silvercrest]

Careful, son, or you'll make yourself obsolete.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Careful, son, or you'll make yourself obsolete.

?

 

[T'Girl]

The Federation and Bajor are both democracies, with the Federation being a social democracy.

A social democracy? Hopefully not, although a democracy most likely. We've never seen enough of the "federation council" in action to determine it's exact form.

The council might be composed of a relatively small number of representatives from the federation's more powerful worlds, with the bulk of the membership relegated to a powerless general assembly.

Ardana wasn't apparently a democracy. And if things had gone just slightly differently, Vulcan could have been one of the founders the federation with the central command still in power.

So while the governing body of the federation is likely a democracy, there no telling how many of the member planet are.

There is no such thing as a communist dictatorship. Communism is a society without a state or classes, where the workers own the means of production; the ultimate democracy.

In theory perhaps, but as the entire world has seen, in practice communism is in fact a form of brutal dictatorship.

 

[Silvercrest]

Careful, son, or you'll make yourself obsolete.

?

If Emperor Tiberius convinces everyone an emperor isn't necessary to run things, he'll quickly be deposed.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Careful, son, or you'll make yourself obsolete.

?

If Emperor Tiberius convinces everyone an emperor isn't necessary to run things, he'll quickly be deposed.

I'm pretty flexible. I'll rule as chancellor

 

[Cyke101]

There is no such thing as a communist dictatorship. Communism is a society without a state or classes, where the workers own the means of production; the ultimate democracy.

Still sounds like the Borg to me. In the Communist Manifesto Marx argued that the ideal communist system would be run by the dictatorship of the proletariat--ie the workers have all the power, I am unsure how democratically that was supposed to work beyond the level of the factory. Instead communist states perverted and became dictatorships over the proletariat.

But at any rate, the Borg "government" would be exactly like what Marx would want.

I think this would have been accurate until that pesky Borg Queen was introduced. Then we have a clear head of state, someone who is calling the shots (the ultimate not in Communism, but in Fascism).

Funny how one person can make a difference, eh?

 

[The Overlord]

There is no such thing as a communist dictatorship. Communism is a society without a state or classes, where the workers own the means of production; the ultimate democracy.

Still sounds like the Borg to me. In the Communist Manifesto Marx argued that the ideal communist system would be run by the dictatorship of the proletariat--ie the workers have all the power, I am unsure how democratically that was supposed to work beyond the level of the factory. Instead communist states perverted and became dictatorships over the proletariat.

But at any rate, the Borg "government" would be exactly like what Marx would want.

I think this would have been accurate until that pesky Borg Queen was introduced. Then we have a clear head of state, someone who is calling the shots (the ultimate not in Communism, but in Fascism).

Funny how one person can make a difference, eh?

Well most communist governments end up that way anyway, with one central figure in charge, like Stalin for example. However I always thought the Borg were more scary without the Queen.

 

[Cyke101]

Well most communist governments end up that way anyway, with one central figure in charge, like Stalin for example.

Which is true, but that also means those communist governments become in a sense less communist in the process. Totalitarian and oppressive yes, but if the ultimate Communist government means leadership by the proletariat, then Stalin's regime (and most other dictators out there) can't attain that ultimate Communist state by default.

I'm reminded of the US Civil War. Karl Marx followed the war with great interest, and he saw the Union victory as a blow for the worker -- after all, emancipating the slaves and recognizing their value and power as human beings and as a money-using workforce went well with his writings about the proletariat resisting against the small master elite of the South. Marx wrote Lincoln congratulating him on re-election, and he was looking forward to Lincoln's second term. Not to get too political (and I don't mean to sound partisan at all), but can you imagine the hero of Republicans and the hero of Communists0 on friendly terms? Those were different times back then

 

[The Overlord]

Well most communist governments end up that way anyway, with one central figure in charge, like Stalin for example.

Which is true, but that also means those communist governments become in a sense less communist in the process. Totalitarian and oppressive yes, but if the ultimate Communist government means leadership by the proletariat, then Stalin's regime (and most other dictators out there) can't attain that ultimate Communist state by default.

True, but I wouldn't consider the USSR fascist in the same way Nazi Germany was. When Marx suggested a dictatorship of the proletariat, who would run it beside bureaucrats? You can't just slap a suit on a baker and make him an effective administrator in a day. Stalin started out as the party's secretary. Ultimately communist dictatorships justify their existence by saying their government serve the will of the proletariat.

But this is getting a bit off topic, to bring things back, the Borg are far more similar to a communist regime then anything else, the Cardassians seem more representative of fascism then the Borg. Either with the Queen or without, the Borg do mirror communist regimes.

 

[Cyke101]

Well most communist governments end up that way anyway, with one central figure in charge, like Stalin for example.

Which is true, but that also means those communist governments become in a sense less communist in the process. Totalitarian and oppressive yes, but if the ultimate Communist government means leadership by the proletariat, then Stalin's regime (and most other dictators out there) can't attain that ultimate Communist state by default.

True, but I wouldn't consider the USSR fascist in the same way Nazi Germany was. When Marx suggested a dictatorship of the proletariat, who would run it beside bureaucrats? You can't just slap a suit on a baker and make him an effective administrator in a day. Stalin started out as the party's secretary. Ultimately communist dictatorships justify their existence by saying their government serve the will of the proletariat.

Funny enough, I went back to edit my previous post while you typed this up. But yes, I agree with you here about communist dictatorships justifying their existence, the only thing is, it sort of proves the adage: "Communism is a good idea on paper...", (though I suppose you could say the same about any political system though. "A more perfect Union" implies Lincoln saw democracy as faltering in certain places.). That is, I think that's less a fault of communism and more about propaganda (which, if anything, the USSR was supremely good at) and good ol' fashioned human greed.

However, slapping a suit on a baker and expect him to become an effective admin isn't something Marx declared, but rather his successors in warping his views. Marx saw the value of a diversified workforce that had not just hard laborers but also those with what he called "abstract laborers" -- so not just administrators but artists, musicians, educators, etc. He wasn't for assigning jobs, but he wanted to make sure people's skills and talents were used towards jobs that would help the economy in the most efficient ways. Of course, again what's on paper is different than execution, but this is just to clarify.

To follow your lead and get back on topic, I would agree that the Borg are Trek's closest analogues to Communism (hey, they're an 80s concept), but if we're going by strictly Marxian terms, I wouldn't call them the Ultimate Communists because of the Borg Queen (a 90s concept). Maybe... Super Communists? Ultra Communists? And, going by my earlier comment that the USSR and Lenin/Stalin (who made communism "less-perfect" by going against Marx's wishes) were really great at propaganda, I would give that skill to the Borg Queen, who I would say is a heck of a lot more cunning, persuasive, and more skilled at propaganda than the Borg we saw in TNG -- that is, they'd give lip service and then steamroll over you. The Borg Queen, however, took time to try and convince Picard, Data, Seven, and Janeway to join her.

 

[Timo]

The Federation and Bajor are both democracies, with the Federation being a social democracy.

We have never heard of a system of public representation in the UFP, though. And while Bajor engages in popular vote for certain positions, state affairs appear to be decided by a religious council, for which no popular vote is indicated, along with a secular council of ministers, for which again no popular vote is indicated. Nor do we learn that these councils would have their representation even indirectly based on a popularly voted body, such as in parliamentarism where said body is the legislative one and the ministers get appointed in reflection of the power ratios of the elected legislative body.

Oh, well. At least candidacy for First Minister seems open to everybody, including the seemingly thoroughly secular Shakaar, and the vote for that position appears to be a public one (although we don't know what the limitations on suffrage are - just the modern human ones of age and mental health and certain conflict-of-interest professions and positions, or something else as well).

The Cardassians are a military dictatorship.

Here in turn it would be proper to note that there is no evidence for the lack of public vote; on that, the Cardassian Union and the United Federation of Planets stand on the same line.

Also, the Union explicitly isn't ruled solely by the military, but by a triumvirate of the military, the secret police, and a civilian council, with a system of checks and balances.

The Klingons have a feudal system with a noble class.

It should be noted that one major feature of a true feudal system, serfdom, seems to be lacking. All we have of the classic system is a symbolic (and indeed for three centuries nonexistent!) leader of state and a powerful council of noblemen who pay lip service to said leader and elect the true leader from their midst. The Noble Houses themselves do not appear to feature a fractal copy of this arrangement, or at least we have never heard of Klingon slaves or lower-level hierarchies.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Overlord]

The Federation and Bajor are both democracies, with the Federation being a social democracy.

We have never heard of a system of public representation in the UFP, though. And while Bajor engages in popular vote for certain positions, state affairs appear to be decided by a religious council, for which no popular vote is indicated, along with a secular council of ministers, for which again no popular vote is indicated. Nor do we learn that these councils would have their representation even indirectly based on a popularly voted body, such as in parliamentarism where said body is the legislative one and the ministers get appointed in reflection of the power ratios of the elected legislative body.

Oh, well. At least candidacy for First Minister seems open to everybody, including the seemingly thoroughly secular Shakaar, and the vote for that position appears to be a public one (although we don't know what the limitations on suffrage are - just the modern human ones of age and mental health and certain conflict-of-interest professions and positions, or something else as well).

The President of the Federation seems to be an elected position, so its safe to assume the Federation is a democracy.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_Federation_of_Planets

As for Bajor, when was it ever said the Chamber of Ministers has less power then the Assembly of Vedeks, how do we know the assembly wasn't just an advisory body?

The Cardassians are a military dictatorship.

Here in turn it would be proper to note that there is no evidence for the lack of public vote; on that, the Cardassian Union and the United Federation of Planets stand on the same line.

Also, the Union explicitly isn't ruled solely by the military, but by a triumvirate of the military, the secret police, and a civilian council, with a system of checks and balances.

Except Cardassia doesn't have many sort of bill rights, Cardassian society was portrayed as completely totalitarian, where the government can kill any citizen for any reason, often without a trial and if there is a trial its not every fair. If there are checks and balances, why does it seem the Cardassian state can just make any citizen it wants disappear, as mentioned by Odo in "The Wire"?

Also why did Picard say the Cardassian military took over the government, if that wasn't case, in "Chain of Command"?

It was even said that a military official can overturn any decision made by the civilian government in the episode "The Cardassians".

The civilian council seemed to have no real power, any election was just to elect people who had no real say. That's why there was a dissent movement on Cardassia in the first place, because people were unhappy that the military had all the real power. The civilian council elections are the kind of shame elections dictatorships often have to justify their rule.

The Klingons have a feudal system with a noble class.

It should be noted that one major feature of a true feudal system, serfdom, seems to be lacking. All we have of the classic system is a symbolic (and indeed for three centuries nonexistent!) leader of state and a powerful council of noblemen who pay lip service to said leader and elect the true leader from their midst. The Noble Houses themselves do not appear to feature a fractal copy of this arrangement, or at least we have never heard of Klingon slaves or lower-level hierarchies.

Timo Saloniemi

Just because the Klingons do not have serfdom, doesn't mean they don't live in a feudalistic society.

General Martok mentioned several times that his lack of noble blood has back his career many times and he felt unworthy of being the Chancellor because he lacked noble blood. The High council is made up of the heads of the most powerful houses in the Klingon Empire and Duras was able to get away with murder because his house was powerful. The Klingon Empire is set up where the noble class has all the real power.

 

[Timo]

The President of the Federation seems to be an elected position, so its safe to assume the Federation is a democracy.

Elections and democracy aren't the same thing by a long shot. We have no idea who elects the UFP President, but e.g. election of kings from among noblemen has been common practice in Earth history... The thing is, we have never seen that UFP citizens could hold political influence unless they themselves are politicians. Or freedom fighters, perhaps.

If there are checks and balances, why does it seem the Cardassian state can just make any citizen it wants disappear, as mentioned by Odo in "The Wire"?

What does the power to make citizens disappear have to do with military dictatorships? Civilian types of rule can make that happen, too. Indeed, in the classic police state, the military is an underdog, kept deliberately weak and uninfluential so that the ruling clique can sleep safe and sound; a carefully sectioned police force and a system of elite military units enforces for the clique.

Granted that the Detapa Council sounds like a rubber stamp, though. But we never learned that this council would be related to elections and/or democracy, either.

Just because the Klingons do not have serfdom, doesn't mean they don't live in a feudalistic society.

How so? Serfdom is a key characteristic of feudalism, the ultimate conclusion of vassalage.

Klingons may live in all sorts of societies, but in order for it to be feudalism, you need a mechanism where the wealth and power of the nobleman formally belongs to the king or emperor or whatever, and is only "on loan" in exchange for servitude. And that structure is supposed to extend all the way down, so that the vassals have their own vassals, until we end up (down!) with the poor serfs.

...Although browsing through the net, it seems that it's customary today to separate "partial" feudalism (as applies to the top ranks only) from manorialism (which extends throughout the society).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[tafkats]

No human political system can accurately describe the Borg. They are, essentially, an insect colony.

The Ferengi system is definitely not a libertarian one as theorized on the first page. Businesses appear to be heavily regulated in many respects -- the prohibition against doing business with Ferengi females; Liquidator Brunt's harassment of Quark -- and the Nagus appears to essentially have the authority to shut any Ferengi business down if he pleases.

 

[Anwar]

Politics don't apply to the Borg, remember what Q said?

This includes their own organization, they're like a locust swarm except you can talk to them if they think you're tough enough to survive an attack.