Plastic straw debate pits people with disabilities against environmentalists

[UssGlenn]

t reminds me of the issue a few years back with electric cars. Better for the environment... but it turns out that their engines ran so quietly, visually impaired people couldn't hear them in traffic, and it was putting their lives at risk. It ended up getting mandated that electric cars make some kind of noise at low speeds to remedy this.

Please tell me the flying car sound from the Jetsons is an option.

Something that could be easily accessible, such as an ATM, may have security features that seem practical but fail to allow access for all.

What happens when making the item wheelchair accessible makes it impractical for everyone else? I need to get on my knees to use some of the ATM's around here.

 

[Timewalker]

You might be on to something here... although as with every kind of violation, the person pursing damages will have their work cut out for them. I know that Ontario has clearly defined accessible design standards but I am not sure about the rest of Canada.

The Human Rights Commissions are provincial, but the Charter of Rights affects all Canadians (and apparently soon-to-be Canadians, as in the case of the Muslim woman who sued the government for the right to wear her niqab at her citizenship ceremony; that case ultimately ended up affecting the outcome of the federal election back in 2015).

So that's why I specified the government - meaning the federal government, since this is an issue the Prime Minister has been talking about. He's been very keen on pushing inclusivity and speaking up for marginalized Canadians, so I would hope that he extends this to disabled Canadians. If he doesn't, it's one more slap in the face to follow the fiasco of the 2015 federal election, in which some of the advance polling stations were not accessible to wheelchair/walker-using voters.

How is being able to drink the beverage you ordered trivial?

Such is the attitude of people who aren't disabled, don't know anyone who is, and don't care.

Absolutely, Timewalker, It's tough for able bodied people to get the big picture.

There are a number of daily inconveniences that are obvious to people in wheelchairs for example - sand, slush impassible or doors that are too narrow, etc. But there are many other unforeseen barriers that are problematic, too.

• The traffic light is too short to get the manual wheelchair across the street in time.
• The "accessible" mall has a store you wanted to go to, but that one store is not accessible (after hiring a $100 taxi to get you there).
• Something that could be easily accessible, such as an ATM, may have security features that seem practical but fail to allow access for all.

Our objective should be to create a world that people with disabilities will want to live in.

Agreed. As a disabled person myself, I've had some issues with landlords over situations of accessibility and safety. One of the successes was in convincing the property management company rep here to make a change in the concrete plaza in front of the apartment building. They had a construction crew working on it, and they had put in a temporary ramp to move their heavy equipment up and down. This was very handy for the wheelchair-using tenants, but later on they removed the ramp, leaving a straight curb. It wasn't a high curb, but it was high enough to cause trips and falls.

One of those who fell was a friend who uses a wheelchair. There was nobody around to help her up (her wheelchair tipped over when she was trying to get over the curb) except her brother... who uses a wheeled walker. She was telling me about this one day, and I said, "The manager is in the office right now, and you need to tell him about this."

So she did, and I made the point that my friend (in her 70s) could have broken her hip. I didn't add "and sued the company" but I'm sure that crossed the manager's mind. He said he had to go to a meeting soon and would bring this issue up.

He kept his promise, and by the end of the summer the plaza section had been made flush with the parking lot. So no ramp was needed, and there's no dangerous curb.

Now, if they'd just fix the damn potholes in the parking lot so those of us using wheelchairs, walkers, and canes could actually leave here safely... another tenant said she'd love to be able to just go for a walk around the neighborhood, but can't because it's too dangerous to try to get out of the parking lot!

Straw upon request = great. This is a measured, balanced approach. teacake, I'm wondering which country do you live in? Because that's really interesting that drinks don't automatically come with straws. Starbucks certainly seems to be taking the lead on sustainable conveyances - their shops (that I've seen) are also pretty good about having accessible amenities.

Teacake is in Australia.

Cheers, Avro Arrow. It's fantastic that the issue's been identified and being discussed. The bummer is that many places have jumped the gun and gotten rid of their straws already - God almighty, if they threw them all in the garbage... if that's the case, all they've done is inconvenience the vulnerable. Moreso.

Something I thought of - not that would necessarily be a problem for all disabled people, but some, definitely... how would Slurpees be consumed without straws? Or milkshakes? You can't tell me that a paper straw is going to be strong enough to contend with some of the ice clumps that sometimes happen in a Slurpee cup.

It is possible to use spoons... if you can hold a spoon and eat from it.

Perhaps there is nothing sexy or rewarding about being practical? There should be a Nobel-class award for politicians who champion success through efficient means.

Several decades ago, two of the members of my local city council decided to experience daily life from the perspective of people in wheelchairs. They each got a wheelchair, and spent a week in it. One of the things they did was try to navigate the downtown district in a wheelchair... in the middle of winter. They found it difficult to impossible, not to mention dangerous, to get through the snow, slush, and ice on the streets and sidewalks, and that doesn't even begin to cover the difficulties they had in negotiating the curbs.

So they made a report to City Council about their experiences and made the rest of them realize that money can't be the deciding factor in whether or not the sidewalks in the central downtown area (where most of the banks, the library, the major stores - this was before they all moved out to the malls - and City Hall itself were located) were accessible to wheelchair users.

So now there are wheelchair-accessible curbs on the corners there, which has made all the difference in the world for mobility-challenged people to get around the city and have more independence. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was.

What happens when making the item wheelchair accessible makes it impractical for everyone else? I need to get on my knees to use some of the ATM's around here.

Some places have two ATMs - one for wheelchair users and one for people who are able to stand while they do their banking.

 

[Kor]

Hmm. The very first straws I encountered with a flexible section were paper.

As to restaurants, we in drought-stricken California have had laws, at times, forbidding restaurants from serving glasses of water unless the customer asks for one, which is perfectly reasonable, given that it takes at least a good quart of water to wash, rinse, sanitize, and fill a 10-oz glass, and there's no point in serving water if the customer isn't going to drink it.

Why can't we simply impose the same restrictions on straws?

Then, too, most zoos have been refusing to issue disposable straws for decades, because they're a potential hazard to the animals, but they're more than happy to sell you a reusable cup with an attached reusable straw.

Interestingly, when I went to a restaurant in a CA desert town at the height of summertime drought season, the server brought out a glass of water without even asking me, even though every table had a little note saying water would only be served on request.

Kor

 

[MacLeod]

You could always go down the route they went with single use carrier bags and charge customer say 5p for a single use plastic straw.