Picard-Related Stories, Rumors, and Reviews from Third-Party Sources

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by The Old Mixer, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No Borg. More AI and Romulans...that covers it for me.
     
  2. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I've often wondered if by expanding their premiere Arc to three episodes if that took away time from other plot points that needed attention. And it may be that the Borg cube was established in the first season to do just that. Establish it for stories brewing up the road.
     
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  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Because, honestly, the Borg are kind of boring. Like, okay, they're gonna come and try to kill/assimilate everyone... That's been done before. Thematically, there's not really meaningfully different from a natural disaster. And natural disaster stories are hard to do interestingly. I mean, hell, Roland Emmerich has spent his entire career trying re-capture the lightning in a bottle he caught with Independence Day in 1996 with the same basic plot formula -- a natural disaster/foe-you-cannot-reason-with threatens the world, and a "cast of thousands" must unite to defeat it. And the vast majority of those efforts have utterly floundered.

    I think the writers picked up on that because it follows logically from what we've seen before in previous Trek about the Federation having problems accepting AIs as real people with equal rights, and because it's a good sci-fi vehicle to talk about systems of real-life oppression and demonization such as those that led to the rise of Trump and Brexit, per Patrick Stewart's wishes that PIC be a commentary on contemporary Anglo-American politics.

    I think that would have been a very good way to unify the plot elements! In fact, what if the XBs and the Coppellian androids are looking to find a way to unite and build a new society, and the Zhat Vash view that as the fulfillment of the Admonition they must fight?

    It's certainly a subplot, but I do think that PIC is not a Romulan story per se. It's about the clash of the Federation, the Coppelians, and multiple Romulan subcultures. On that level, I don't think the presence of the Artifact or the XBs takes away from anything, but I do agree it needed to be better integrated into the resolution of the main plot.
     
  4. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    The problem with Seven and Picard is Seven is barely there, and Hugh barely interacts with Picard too, and worse Picard's history with the Borg doesn't factor into the android story. The self medication and addiction story lines don't factor in either.

    Seven and Hugh give us brief glimpses into Picard's character which don't specifically factor into the series conclusion. Drop all the Borg stuff, all through TNG and VOY, and the conclusion is the same, because the characterization we get through those moments is nothing more than Picard is a flawed humanitarian. I enjoyed those moments mostly because of their nostalgic connection to older episodes less than any connection to what was going on.

    We already knew he is a flawed humanitarian given his attempt at helping the Romulans and why he quit Starfleet. We also know he is selfless given how much he wanted to help Dahj and Soji despite not knowing anything more than a slim connection to an old dead friend.

    Seven is just a better character, which means she needed a better part in the series. If it came down to it I would drop Raffi, Rios, Jurati, and Elnor and make the old friend/captain/body guard all Seven. Then have it so Seven knows about Hugh's work. Also drop all of the Narek-Soji scenes on the cube. Now there is tons of time to explore Picard and Seven's perspectives on their shared experiences, and expand on how each of them got to where they are now. Except that's not really the show I want even if I think it could work better.

    Having the cube be relevant in the final fight was all I really wanted for it and if they never intended for that they should never have let it move. And using the collective to heal Picard makes sense. If the producers want to ignore canon because it makes things too easy, and too hard to write, they need to choose different stories or plot points.

    The thing is here the golem isn't even needed, assimilating Picard to heal him can be done with just assimilation. That alone would be enough to mess with Picard's mind, but given a well written build up it might have prepared him for that kind of situation. This is actually a good reason not to bother including the cube, at least not without far better buildup and emphasis on Picard's history with the Borg.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That would be interesting and has been done in Trek before. I see as a change without a substantial difference though.
     
  6. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There was absolutely no reason to have the twins anyway. Why not just start with Dahj and have Picard accompany her right from the start?

    Eliminate Soji, you eliminate the need for Narek, The Artifact, Hugh, probably Seven/Icheb, etc. The plot becomes much more straightforward: Find Maddox, then find her homeworld.
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’d always assumed that the reasoning behind the twin thing was because of Data and Lore. Except that cannot be true, because PIC acted like Lore never existed. And there was also really no link between Data and B4, since the latter was just disassembled and placed in a drawer with no further follow-through.
     
  8. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    I never got that impression in the show. The twin thing was unique to the process that created Dahj and Soji and the other androids on that planet. I'm pretty sure the show says that.
     
  9. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don’t remember how the twin conclusion came to be. I’ll have to rewatch the show.
     
  10. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Another issue I thought of: If they always have to be created in twos, why isn't there a second "golem" which matches Picard's?
     
  11. Precious Tritium

    Precious Tritium Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I was under the impression that twins were only a byproduct of creating a synth from scratch? For Picard they just mapped his brain and stuck it in a synthetic body.
     
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Because the Golem isn't an android, it's just an empty body.
     
  13. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah. The "twin effect" was a result of the process used to create new positronic brains out of the atomic remains of Data's positronic brain. The golem was just an empty vessel, and therefore needed no twin effect.

    * * *

    As for the meta-textual question of why they went with Dahj and Soji instead of starting with Soji:

    It's a couple of things. Having Soji out there not knowing her true origins means you get to explore her psychology in greater depth than you would if she were essentially just guiding Jean-Luc on a fetch quest to find Maddux and Coppelius. It also gives her more agency as a character, since it allows her to be more than just a plot device in Jean-Luc's story. It lets the writing explore Narek, and particularly explore how he can almost allow himself fall in love with Soji before betraying her. It allows the writers to integrate the Artifact and the XBs -- and yes, while I agree they should have been integrated into the finale better, I continue to insist that you cannot bring Jean-Luc Picard back to television for the first time in 30 years and not explore the central trauma of his life, his assimilation into Locutus. The Artifact and the XBs needed to be there thematically, and a plot device that enables this is good. Having Jean-Luc meet up with Soji midway through the story also allows us to explore the dichotomy of Jean-Luc Picard, this compassionate, selfless man who is also kind of arrogant and bossy, who sometimes demands loyalty he hasn't earned (while also letting us see how he gives loyalty even when the person he's giving his loyalty to may not have earned it).

    And, yes, it also makes for a good twist ending to "Remembrance," for this character who's been built up in the advertising campaign to die and then have the reveal of her twin sister at the very end. There's nothing wrong with a "shocking twist" trope -- Dickens used them all the time!
     
  14. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    Also, having twins gave them the opportunity o fridge one girl and then have another, almost identical one, to 'replace' her and be rescued... But I'm probably just a cynic.

    I was fine with the Borg theme (as in, not your typical 'the borg attack' thing, but the xB angle) but I think they lost that plot, so to speak.
     
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    I just saw a rumor that the contest to appear in Picard as part of a fundraiser was in fact raising money for the 2nd season of Picard. :lol::lol: Proving llots of fans have no idea how Hollywood works.
     
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  16. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    LMAO! I can't wait for them to claim that CBS asked Sir Patrick to pay for the show out of his own pockets. :lol: Or am I too late and they already claimed that? (I've blocked them on every social media thingy I use because they're insufferable, so I'm not up to date on their latest "trusted sources" nonsense.)
     
  17. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    I'm really not interested in anything these boys on 4chan or old dudes on certain other media make up. But I do remember someone here arguing that because SPS got paid (supposedly well), his interest in the show couldn't be sincere... :guffaw::ack:
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    By that argument there criticism of Picard must not be sincere since they get paid by the click...:shifty:
     
  19. rocketdave

    rocketdave Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  20. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hers a nice link to sum up the thinking of the producers like kurtzman. They really don’t get Star Trek one bit.