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Peter David

Garm Bel Iblis

Commodore
I gotta give him credit, he's a successful talented guy that deserves all the creditdue tohim.

However, I've been going back to read vintage David, Rock and Hard Place, Strike Zone, etc...

I loved these when they came out, but maybe it's the high qualityof the current novels, but David seems so over the top cartoonish\ comic bookish that I'm totally turned off from him any more.

I gave up on new frontier and Before Dishonor was a terrible read.

Is Mister David overrated and ready to be put out to pasture?
 
I'm an avid reader of Star Trek novels, both past and present. I also enjoyed Peter David's early stuff. However, although I've read all his New Frontier novels, I have a hard time taking his writing and characters seriously, especially Mackenzie Calhoun. There's no way in hell this guy should ever have been the captain of a ship, much less even in Starfleet. His cockiness really gets on my nerves, and I fail to understand why it doesn't get on the nerves of the other characters he interacts with (except maybe Jellico). And the fact that David writes him as some kind of Superman figure who is always able to fight his way out of conflicts without so much as a scratch (except for his goofy scar) is just too over-the-top for me.
 
while I wouldn't say PAD should be "put out to pasture", I agree that the latest NF (After the Fall and onwards) have been pretty over-the-top.

I'd much rather have the "PAD of yesteryear" with classics like Imzadi, Q-Squared and the first novels of NF...

I think that the current crop of Trek lit (IMHO, the best overall it's ever been) does put "veteran" Trek novelists (such as PAD, Duane and others) in a new light, in which *some* of their Trek work hadn't aged so well, but I would like to see their takes on current Trek continuity (24C, or even 23C).
 
RonG - you'd rather have the sensible, non-over-the-top PAD of yesteryear, like when the first NF arc ended with a giant flaming bird hatching out of a planet?

Somehow I don't think it's PAD's sensibilities that have changed, but yours. Which is fine, but either way.

I personally love NF. I have no problem reading some Trek that I expect to be thoughtful and analytical, and some Trek that I expect to be ridiculous and absurd. They're different ways of accessing the same emotional truths, and to a certain extent both equally valid. I defy anyone to read Stone & Anvil and tell me there isn't some real depth there.
 
Cockiness doesn't have a thing to do with competency, but it does get a little old at times. I didn't like Before Dishonor, but rather enjoyed everything else has put out.
 
I can't wait to read Before Dishonor. So many of the reviews say it's just awful. That says to me that it's probably entertaining as fuck but also dumber than shit. That covers a lot of the Peter David experience. His books are rip-roaring fun. Roller coaster rides. Emotional experiences rather than cerebral ones. I'm not one of those folks who watch and read Trek to expand my social conscience and write a term paper. I want to feel an adrenaline rush, have a good laugh and maybe even a good cry. Peter David gives me that.
 
RonG - you'd rather have the sensible, non-over-the-top PAD of yesteryear, like when the first NF arc ended with a giant flaming bird hatching out of a planet?

Somehow I don't think it's PAD's sensibilities that have changed, but yours. Which is fine, but either way.

I don't think PAD's work was ever "sensible" :), but perhaps you're right - perhaps it isn't PAD's work that's changed but rather my own taste.

I remember when PAD's work was, for me, an exception among many not-too-exciting Trek novels. That was in the mid 1990's or so. Today, though, Trek Lit maintains such a high quality (again, IMO the best it's ever been), that PAD's work in general seems a bit... outdated..?
 
I can't wait to read Before Dishonor. So many of the reviews say it's just awful. That says to me that it's probably entertaining as fuck but also dumber than shit. That covers a lot of the Peter David experience. His books are rip-roaring fun. Roller coaster rides. Emotional experiences rather than cerebral ones. I'm not one of those folks who watch and read Trek to expand my social conscience and write a term paper. I want to feel an adrenaline rush, have a good laugh and maybe even a good cry. Peter David gives me that.

you make PAD sound like Michael Bay. not that i dislike Bay (au contraire, i love The Island, BOTH Transformers, Armageddon, The Rock and both Bad Boys)

i think the only PAD book i haven't totally enjoyed was Strike Zone, although it's literally over a decade since i read Rock and a Hard Place...
 
I can't wait to read Before Dishonor. So many of the reviews say it's just awful. That says to me that it's probably entertaining as fuck but also dumber than shit. That covers a lot of the Peter David experience. His books are rip-roaring fun. Roller coaster rides. Emotional experiences rather than cerebral ones. I'm not one of those folks who watch and read Trek to expand my social conscience and write a term paper. I want to feel an adrenaline rush, have a good laugh and maybe even a good cry. Peter David gives me that.
I think that sums up Peter David's writing pretty well. I've really liked NF since it started, and Imzadi and Q-Squared were both great, but with the tone of the current books, I think it's best if he sticks with NF. IMHO Before Dishonor showed very well that his style just doesn't work in the rest of the Trek Lit universe.
 
I've certainly enjoyed his work (Imzadi is terrifc stuff), but I'd agree that the humor he injects can sometimes be to the work's detriment. PAD has a great talent for the funny stuff, but it's also his work's biggest weakness (like when he'll include an entire scene just to set up a questionable pun).

^^Please keep in mind that I haven't read much of PAD's recent Trek work, since he's largely only done New Frontier for the past few years.
 
Peter David is certainly hit-or-miss for me. I've read and enjoyed many of his earlier Trek novels, up through Before Dishonor. But I've been annoyed with his insertion of (IMO) inappropriate & distracting humor since his otherwise-good run on DC's 1st Star Trek series. I stopped picking up New Frontier after the first four novels, without any regrets.

Do I think Pocket should stop publishing his books? Absolutely not! Just because he's not to my taste anymore doesn't mean a lot of other people don't still enjoy his work. As long as he still sells books, more power to him.
 
I can't wait to read Before Dishonor. So many of the reviews say it's just awful. That says to me that it's probably entertaining as fuck but also dumber than shit. That covers a lot of the Peter David experience. His books are rip-roaring fun. Roller coaster rides. Emotional experiences rather than cerebral ones. I'm not one of those folks who watch and read Trek to expand my social conscience and write a term paper. I want to feel an adrenaline rush, have a good laugh and maybe even a good cry. Peter David gives me that.

I'm not so sure about "dumber than shit". Being absurd and over-the-top is not the same as being dumb. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is absurd, and totally over-the-top, but has fully the best and most powerful story about death of a loved one that I've ever seen in any medium. Sometimes insanity of setting allows you the freedom to access emotional truths from a totally different context.

I think Peter David knows exactly what he's doing, and I think his stories can be some of the most powerful in TrekLit in part because of his absurdity.

There's a scene in Stone & Anvil where, I think, he basically explains this to the audience. While at Starfleet Academy in a series of flashbacks to her and Calhoun's time there, Shelby, depressed, comes across Boothby. She tells him he couldn’t possibly understand what’s going on in her life; he says “try me”. She says “my boyfriend is a former warlord who liberated his planet while still a teenager and has been working on fitting in here at the Academy even though he wears our concept of civilization like a cape that he wishes he could toss off at any time.” Boothby replies, “So he’s an outsider, is what you’re saying, trying to become an insider.” And he shrugs. “Seen a ton of those over the years.”

I think that's why this all works, the whole crazy evil-Gribble planet-hatching Redeemer-killing insanity that is New Frontier. As much as the details are ridiculous, the core of the series is in a set of characters living a set of very human struggles, presented sensitively and with a weird but genuine balance of both whimsy and import. In a lot of ways, to me, New Frontier feels more like reality than most serious Trek does, because reality always feels like a series of random obstacles. Reality doesn't really have a meta-narrative, it's just a bunch of crazy shit you have to deal with.

And as with reality, in PAD's writing it’s never the obstacles that are important – it’s the people. It’s admittedly a somewhat absurd craft, but at its best it's every bit the equal of the other greats of TrekLit. And I get a little annoyed every time anyone posts that the key to enjoying a PAD novel is to turn your brain off, be stupid, and enjoy the ride. His books actually make ME think MORE.
 
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