Penny Dreadful, Edison Cylinders

[knightgrace]

I have had a breakthrough in the understanding of where precisely the idea of Duotronics came from.

The insight came, from of all places the television series 'Penny Dreadful '. As the early episodes show the progression of the first season, we are shown, Edison Cylinders. And, more importantly, 'hear' them play. I say "hear" because I don't know if they actually used the early Edison technology. Edison Cylinders were composed of very hard wax, so as to last a while. If you ever hear one being played back, it is very scratchy in playback.

This scratchiness lasted till the 1950s till High Fidelity Sterophonic Record Players came out. Its still there of course, but very greatly reduced.

Sterophonic systems used two sets of microphones to achieve a realistic level of performance reproduction. Stage right, and stage left.

The next part of the problem is to achieve with a digital system, analog performance, with regard to operational standards. In the real world, this was achieved through the development of specialized computer chips , beginning with analog, later digital signal processors.

What they did, was to take an analog signal and convert it to a digital format. But! The Second Law of thermal dynamics rears its head hear. It is called 'pixelation '. Meaning that a 16 bit digital signal processor will be scratchy. So will a 32 bit one, and so on.

The idea, is to eliminate scratchiness.

This is Duotronics.

Why? Think of the technological change from the Edison Cylinders to High Fidelity Sterophonic Systems.

...

Exactly.

 

[Dukhat]

‘Duotronics’ was just a made-up word coined for fictional computer systems in TOS. It has nothing to do with record players in a drama series made in 2014. You are severely reaching for connections that aren’t there. Especially since the TOS writers did not have the ability to time travel to 2014 to get their ideas.

 

[DSG2k]

‘Duotronics’ was just a made-up word coined for fictional computer systems in TOS.

This. We have no idea what it does, how it works, or what the "duo" even means. We also don't actually know anything significant about isolinear technology, optolithic data rods, bio-neural circuitry, et cetera.

That said, much as I was tempted to make a wisecracking reply earlier, I refrained. Conjecture can be fun, after all, and if this cat has some conjectural idea that somehow makes sense to him and him alone, then whatever.

But, in fairness:

It has nothing to do with record players in a drama series made in 2014. You are severely reaching for connections that aren’t there. Especially since the TOS writers did not have the ability to time travel to 2014 to get their ideas.

There was never any suggestion of any such connection. The goofy-name show reference was simply telling the path to how he arrived at his conjectural assessment.

 

[knightgrace]

You haven't considered the time span of of when Gene Roddenberry et el was born, nor his father.

For that we have to go into cultural changes due to actual technology.

Furthermore, Edison Cylinders had a new lease on life in the 1950s as magnetic drums. Which evolved into magnetic disks...

The point being that any competent adult would notice these things and be influenced by them.

Computers definitely existed in the 1960s, and were in the process of becoming an ever greater 'thing'.

The big question back then is how far exactly could they go??

And how long would it take??? Moores Law, was barely quantified. So any attempt in the real world to extrapolate more than a few years down the line, was more than trivial.

For example: Arthur C. Clarke in the novelization of 2001 A Space Odyssey, has the HAL 9000 computer being of his definition of the third generation of computers. The First Generation was Vacuum Tubes, the Second was Transistors.

The fourth Generation was to be the HAL 10000...(2010 Odyssey 2)

But even Doctor Clarke couldn't see, what his fourth generation - meant.

Just read 2061 Odyssey 3, and the last one 3001.

 

[Dukhat]

What does any of that rambling diatribe have to do with your imagined link between a made-up word in a ‘60’s TV show and a record player from a 2014 TV show?

 

[DSG2k]

(The can-shaped objects behind the player are Edison cylinders, for those unaware. I own one. Only later did groove-and-needle sound recreation tech involve a flat plate shape.)

 

[knightgrace]

Information storage is Information storage. The quality of information storage is important here.

Very important.

What I am doing is reasoning by analogy, combining historical trends in real world technology, as well as well known examples of people's thoughts, as evidenced by their writing.

Which is available, for anyone to read.

To bring it back around to Star Trek, in particular the episode 'The Changeling ', as launched, Nomad was capable of Independent Logic - other words, self programming. Whether or not it actually spoke is unclear. But I think that it could about its operational Status. Duotronic computers definitely speak, but can't carry on a conversation. Multitronic systems can to a limited extent.

 

[Dukhat]

If you say so. Frankly, it sounds like you are reaching to satisfy your own personal hypothesis about a link between two completely different things whose connection is tenuous at best. But you do you.

 

[knightgrace]

So you think that Nomad was perfect?

 

[Dukhat]

I really have no idea what you’re on about.

 

[XCV330]

I have had a breakthrough in the understanding of where precisely the idea of Duotronics came from.

The insight came, from of all places the television series 'Penny Dreadful '. As the early episodes show the progression of the first season, we are shown, Edison Cylinders. And, more importantly, 'hear' them play. I say "hear" because I don't know if they actually used the early Edison technology. Edison Cylinders were composed of very hard wax, so as to last a while. If you ever hear one being played back, it is very scratchy in playback.

This scratchiness lasted till the 1950s till High Fidelity Sterophonic Record Players came out. Its still there of course, but very greatly reduced.

Sterophonic systems used two sets of microphones to achieve a realistic level of performance reproduction. Stage right, and stage left.

The next part of the problem is to achieve with a digital system, analog performance, with regard to operational standards. In the real world, this was achieved through the development of specialized computer chips , beginning with analog, later digital signal processors.

What they did, was to take an analog signal and convert it to a digital format. But! The Second Law of thermal dynamics rears its head hear. It is called 'pixelation '. Meaning that a 16 bit digital signal processor will be scratchy. So will a 32 bit one, and so on.

The idea, is to eliminate scratchiness.

This is Duotronics.

Why? Think of the technological change from the Edison Cylinders to High Fidelity Sterophonic Systems.

...

Exactly.

phonograph cylinders work entirely different from the way records work. They made indentations. The earliest of them used foil, rather than wax. You can actually see a few videos on youtube on how the tin foil phonographs "Worked" showing the indentations. The initial wax cylinders weren't initially very hard wax. They could not survive many replays and are also subject to rot. Edison hadn't really assumed music playback would be the killer app. He was thinking more like transcription recordings.

The hard-wax black and blue ones came later with the Amphenol and Amphenol Blue. The main problem with the cylinders wasn't sound quality: they weren't any worse than the initial plate records and in some ways were better, especially towards the end of play. But they had much more restrictive time limits. It was initially much harder to reproduce them en-masse but they were getting better with that by the time production ended. Edison moved over to plate records but didn't give up on indentation vs horizontal scratching. In an odd turnabout, RCA revisited the idea in it's failed CED disks in the 80s.

Any recording from the 1890's-1920's is going to have scratchy playback. That didn't improve until Sound on Film and Magnetic Tape.

Also I have no freaking idea what any of this is about.