Pathologist says Doctor Kelly's death was 'textbook suicide'.

[Saul]

Nicholas Hunt said the scientist's death, after he was exposed as the source for a BBC story, was a "classic case of self-inflicted injury".
He told the Sunday Times he would, however, welcome a full inquest.
Dr Kelly's body was found in woods close to his Oxfordshire home in 2003, after it was revealed he provided the information for a story casting doubt on the government's claim that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction capable of being fired within 45 minutes.


Instead of a coroner's inquest, then Prime Minister Tony Blair asked Lord Hutton to conduct an investigation, which found Dr Kelly died from blood loss after slashing his wrist with a knife.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11050587

What the heck is text book suicide? It looks like a suicide hence it must be one? Can't someone else cut your wrists and then just put the knife in your hand? That will still look text book.
Even ambulance staff at the scene thought it might not have being a suicide.

A married man with 3 children would kill himself over a weapons report? Really?
Text book my ass.

 

[JonathonWally]

What the heck is text book suicide? It looks like a suicide hence it must be one? Can't someone else cut your wrists and then just put the knife in your hand? That will still look text book.

Well, if you're a righty, the slash marks you make using your right hand on your left wrist will look different than the slash mark you make with your left hand on your right wrist. The angle of the slashmarks. If they were slashed the right way or the wrong way.

 

[FordSVT]

What the heck is text book suicide? It looks like a suicide hence it must be one? Can't someone else cut your wrists and then just put the knife in your hand? That will still look text book.

Well, if you're a righty, the slash marks you make using your right hand on your left wrist will look different than the slash mark you make with your left hand on your right wrist. The angle of the slashmarks. If they were slashed the right way or the wrong way.

They'd also note how the body laid on the ground when he was found, the blood pooling, any sign of restraint, etc.

If someone murdered you against your will, there are going to be additional signs of injury, or restraint. You don't just let someone slash your wrists in the woods and then lay there motionless, waiting to die. Would you, Saul?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Oh, look! It's a thread by a lay person who thinks they're smarter than paid experts. Never seen that before.

 

[Saul]

What the heck is text book suicide? It looks like a suicide hence it must be one? Can't someone else cut your wrists and then just put the knife in your hand? That will still look text book.

Well, if you're a righty, the slash marks you make using your right hand on your left wrist will look different than the slash mark you make with your left hand on your right wrist. The angle of the slashmarks. If they were slashed the right way or the wrong way.

And if a Pathologist knew that then someone else can know the same.

They'd also note how the body laid on the ground when he was found, the blood pooling, any sign of restraint, etc.

If someone murdered you against your will, there are going to be additional signs of injury, or restraint. You don't just let someone slash your wrists in the woods and then lay there motionless, waiting to die. Would you, Saul?

I would if I was drugged. He had drugs in his system.

Oh, look! It's a thread by a lay person who thinks they're smarter than paid experts. Never seen that before.

Oh look, a person who accepts facts at face value because an "expert" told him so. This is why 18% of people now believe Obama is a Muslim. Smoking Marijuana will destroy your life and you'll go to hell for supporting gay marriage. Some people will eat anything that's put infront of them if it's got some sticker on it that says "this is ok". Wow, it's fool proof!

Oh and by the way Iraq had weapons of mass destruction right? As mentioned by experts.

This pathologist's results has being questioned by a group of doctors who have called for a full inquest.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Oh, look! It's a thread by a lay person who thinks they're smarter than paid experts. Never seen that before.

Oh look, a person who accepts facts at face value because an "expert" told him so. This is why 18% of people now believe Obama is a Muslim. Smoking Marijuana will destroy your life and you'll go to hell for supporting gay marriage. Some people will eat anything that's put infront of them if it's got some sticker on it that says "this is ok". Wow, it's fool proof!

Oh and by the way Iraq had weapons of mass destruction right? As mentioned by experts.

This pathologist's results has being questioned by a group of doctors who have called for a full inquest.

Then let the doctors have their inquest. But your skepticism wasn't based on anything, you just think it's easy to fake a suicide.

PS: Your examples are shit and have nothing to do with expertise of any kind.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Aren't ruthless government conspiracies supposed to assassinate people before they share all of their information with the press? Seems kind of pointless to kill him once the cat's already out of the bag. Of course, that's probably what they wanted us to believe, and killing him after there was no longer any need to do so may have been part of their plan all along, to throw us off of their scent.

A married man with three children is probably more likely to kill himself over a situation like this than a single man since the single man generally doesn't have to worry about the effect of his potential job loss and notoriety on his immediate family (unless he's caring for a parent or something).

And, what is your basis for suspecting foul play? The fact that it's a "textbook" case, as in its too perfect to have been suicide? That the paramedics thought it might not have been suicide before forensics collected evidence from the scene and before an autopsy was performed?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

And if anyone thinks people don't commit suicide over seemingly trivial matters, may I direct your attention to Admiral Boorda.

 

[Saul]

Oh, look! It's a thread by a lay person who thinks they're smarter than paid experts. Never seen that before.

Oh look, a person who accepts facts at face value because an "expert" told him so. This is why 18% of people now believe Obama is a Muslim. Smoking Marijuana will destroy your life and you'll go to hell for supporting gay marriage. Some people will eat anything that's put infront of them if it's got some sticker on it that says "this is ok". Wow, it's fool proof!

Oh and by the way Iraq had weapons of mass destruction right? As mentioned by experts.

This pathologist's results has being questioned by a group of doctors who have called for a full inquest.

Then let the doctors have their inquest. But your skepticism wasn't based on anything, you just think it's easy to fake a suicide.

This isn't an offical letter of complaint to the government, it's a topic in a forum to discuss the matter. Last time I checked you don't have to be an expert to have a fucking conversation about something.

PS: Your examples are shit and have nothing to do with expertise of any kind.

Did I say I was an expert? Get a clue.

Aren't ruthless government conspiracies supposed to assassinate people before they share all of their information with the press?

Well I doubt he told them he was going to let the cat out of the bag before he actually did. The guy is dead before anymore questions following this up can be asked.

A married man with three children is probably more likely to kill himself over a situation like this than a single man since the single man generally doesn't have to worry about the effect of his potential job loss and notoriety on his immediate family (unless he's caring for a parent or something).

It's just my opinion that as a family man he still has their support behind him even if everything else went to shit. I think he was old enough to have enough life experience to deal with this than to just say he is going for his daily walk and then off himself like that. By killing himself he brought so much more attention to his family. I doubt he would have lost his home or would be unable to support his family over the matter.
That's just my non expert opinion.

And, what is your basis for suspecting foul play? The fact that it's a "textbook" case, as in its too perfect to have been suicide?

Not that's it's textbook. The fact that they claim it as textbook with everything surrounding it. It's too simple a spin on it all. I think it's an unsuitable way to describe the case. It's more than just physical evidence.

That the paramedics thought it might not have been suicide before forensics collected evidence from the scene and before an autopsy was performed?

I'm saying the paramedics were the first ones on the scene, surely they've seen this type of situation before. Forensics came in after the scene was disturbed.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Oh look, a person who accepts facts at face value because an "expert" told him so. This is why 18% of people now believe Obama is a Muslim.

Wait, there are experts who actually claim that Obama is a Muslim?

WTF?

 

[Goliath]

I'm currently reading Voodoo Histories by David Aaronovitch--a book about the history of conspiracy theories.

I just finished his chapter on the murder of Hilda Murrell, which, at the time, was widely blamed (by conspiracy-theorists) on Margaret Thatcher's "secret state," and its attempts to cover up the way it sabotaged peace efforts and ensured that war would be fought with Argentina, by sinking the General Belgrano. Or to stop Murrell's anti-nuclear power activities. Or something.

Twenty years later, a cold-case squad examined the DNA evidence, and determined that Murren's murder was what it had seemed to the police all along: a botched burglary. The perpetrator was arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned.

It's fascinating stuff. I'm looking forward to his chapter on the Kelly suicide.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

A married man with 3 children would kill himself over a weapons report? Really?
Text book my ass.

People have been known to kill themselves over less...some have even killed themselves just because they stupidly got themselves in debt or got fired, and don't have the guts to face up to it and tell their families. And of course end up devastating those same families that they leave behind.

White-collar criminals are also quite suicide-prone as well.

 

[think]

i broke a glass cup I liked and that was the final straw for me I gauged my wrist with the broken glass and when I did not "die" from lose of blood I realized I had eaten all my lsd and the police were checking in on me as I sat in a pool of who knows what... after they left I decided that maybe there were better things around that corner I never noticed ? go figure..

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Well I doubt he told them he was going to let the cat out of the bag before he actually did. The guy is dead before anymore questions following this up can be asked.

But the damage had already been done in making the information public, and if anything had happened to him (as it did) it would only encourage further investigation and suspicion of the government. It's counterproductive. It's better to let the guy live and to discredit him publicly if you're going to be nefarious about it, as governments have done to whistleblowers in the past.

It's just my opinion that as a family man he still has their support behind him even if everything else went to shit. I think he was old enough to have enough life experience to deal with this than to just say he is going for his daily walk and then off himself like that. By killing himself he brought so much more attention to his family. I doubt he would have lost his home or would be unable to support his family over the matter.

Some people can't handle thinking they're a burden on others, especially their families. Whether that burden is attracting undue attention to them in the press, loss of employment and personal reputation making it more difficult to be rehired, what have you. It happens all the time, and for much lesser reasons than being at the center of a national controversy.

The fact that they claim it as textbook with everything surrounding it. It's too simple a spin on it all. I think it's an unsuitable way to describe the case. It's more than just physical evidence.

Okay, but what? You've made vague assertions about how you doubt a family man would kill himself over this and how the paramedics guessed that it might not be suicide, but haven't really presented much in the way of evidence pointing to a murder and coverup. It's certainly not impossible, but neither have you posted anything to suggest that the coroner's report is inaccurate.

I'm saying the paramedics were the first ones on the scene, surely they've seen this type of situation before. Forensics came in after the scene was disturbed.

Yes, paramedics can guess that a scene looks like a suicide, but they can't always know for sure without forensic evidence being collected and an autopsy being performed.

As mentioned, people don't just sit still while others are slashing their forearms and forcing them to slowly bleed out. There would be signs of sedation or a needle puncture, burns and cuts from struggling against ropes or duct tape, or cuts and bruises from fighting his attackers. It's not as easy to fake a suicide like this as you make out.

i broke a glass cup I liked and that was the final straw for me I gauged my wrist with the broken glass and when I did not "die" from lose of blood I realized I had eaten all my lsd and the police were checking in on me as I sat in a pool of who knows what... after they left I decided that maybe there were better things around that corner I never noticed ? go figure..

The mysterious case of the death of Dr. Kelly: SOLVED.