Palpatine in the Federation

[DarthTimon]

Owing to some random act of Q (or whatever), one Senator Palpatine finds himself on earth. Disorientated, but still desiring power like the ruthless Sith Lord we all know and love, Palpatine sets about aiming to take over the Federation. Assume his Force powers are fully available to him, and that he had his lightsaber on his person at the time he blipped into the Federation.

Can he engineer a way to the top, like he did with the Republic?

To have a crack at answering this myself, I think he probably can. There are no pesky Jedi around, so Palpatine can wield his Force powers without having to worry too much about being found out. I don't think he can go too crazy with that, because if he makes a lot of people act decidedly out of character too quickly someone will get suspicious about something. However, he can take advantage of the Federation's substantial adversary list to generate the sort of crisis that with the Republic took him years to build. He can use the Force to nudge friend and foe alike into courses of action that benefit him.

Now, it might be said that the Federation is not generally as corrupt as the Republic was, and this is true, but this doesn't mean the powers that be are flawless, and we've seen admirals go rogue more than once in pursuit of their own agenda. Palpatine can prey on the needs, wants and weaknesses of anyone, and whilst he might not be able to use the Force to bend everyone to his will, if he can do it to the right people, he will give himself an advantage.

On top of all that, we know Palpatine can be very shrewd. He is intelligent, and patient. He didn't rely on the Force in the Prequel Trilogy, and that was his greatest asset. A combination of brains and Force in this scenario would see him eventually consolidate power, and wield the Federation as his own personal fiefdom.

 

[Gaith]

Can he engineer a way to the top, like he did with the Republic?

LOL, no. How? By becoming president of the Federation, or the head of Starfleet? Either way, without any known history, he'd be subjected to all kinds of scrutiny. Rising up the ranks of Starfleet would take decades, and winning the Federation presidency requires a long career and political talent specific to the time and place. Even a Sith Master like him can only mind-control so many people at a time.

After brushing up on his new surroundings, his first move would probably be to find a way to get to the Mirror Universe; it's much more his style.

 

[CmdrJoe]

You got my attention with this post.
The only thing in the Trek-verse I can think of that could stop Palpy is probably Q, the reason you gave for Papa Palps being there in the first place. Of course, there are Melkotions and other energy beings that could probably cause His Imperial Highness to have a really bad day.

 

[1001001]

 

[Set Harth]

How do we know the Force and midichlorians even exist in the Star Trek universe?

 

[DarthTimon]

How do we know the Force and midichlorians even exist in the Star Trek universe?

To be fair, we don’t, but for the sake of this scenario assume they do.

 

[DonIago]

I don't see it. A lot of Palpy's power came less from the Force itself and more from wheelings-and-dealings with the Senate. Doing the same level of politicking in the Federation, even assuming Federation politicians were as corruptible and that there weren't more measures in place to stop such things from happening, would still take years, as it did in the Star Wars universe.

Then, even if he makes his way to the Federation presidency, there's still subverting the government...even during the Dominion War I can't see the Federation Council being willing to give the president the level of latitude that Palps would require to create a dictatorship.

 

[Turtletrekker]

How do we know the Force and midichlorians even exist in the Star Trek universe?

That was my question as well.

 

[Gaith]

How do we know the Force and midichlorians even exist in the Star Trek universe?

Um, the Force is everywhere, and there's no such thing as midichlorians.

 

[Set Harth]

Um, the Force is everywhere

in Star Wars

and there's no such thing as midichlorians

in Star Trek

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

He didn't rely on the Force in the Prequel Trilogy

Of course he did. He was all about "foreseeing" his grand plans which was another way of saying he used the Force to see and construct a desired outcome of the future. Moreover, he actively used Force-powered beings (e.g. Maul, Dooku and ultimately Anakin) to be the movers and shakers of his plans (as opposed to those he manipulated, such as the Trade Federation or senate lackeys). I believe it was Mace who sensed the Dark Side of the Force surrounding Palpatine, because he (Palpatine) used it as much as he was creature of it. His entire plan to destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy did not have a snowball's chance in Hell if he was operating like any regular, non-Force powered human.

 

[DarthTimon]

Of course he did. He was all about "foreseeing" his grand plans which was another way of saying he used the Force to see and construct a desired outcome of the future. Moreover, he actively used Force-powered beings (e.g. Maul, Dooku and ultimately Anakin) to be the movers and shakers of his plans (as opposed to those he manipulated, such as the Trade Federation or senate lackeys). I believe it was Mace who sensed the Dark Side of the Force surrounding Palpatine, because he (Palpatine) used it as much as he was creature of it. His entire plan to destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy did not have a snowball's chance in Hell if he was operating like any regular, non-Force powered human.

As I said, he didn't rely on the Force. He used it, of course he did, but he also used his brain. He was not the Sith of old, he was cunning, and calculated, and also adaptable. His plans did not call for Maul to seemingly die on Naboo, nor for Queen Amidala to survive, but he shrewdly turned those situations to his advantage.

He manipulated the likes of Dooku and Anakin, but he didn't do the dirty work himself. He manipulated a lot of others too, as you say, the Trade Federation, the Separatists as a whole, and the Senate. He was smart.

 

[DonIago]

Exactly. What made Palps a force (sorry) to be reckoned with was that he was both an incredibly powerful Force-user and a very shrewd politician and manipulator. He wouldn't have made it as far as he did without having both of those things. It's doing him a disservice to say he wouldn't have been a threat without the Force, although he surely would have been less of one.

 

[Gaith]

Also, if we assume that perpetual resurrection/de facto immortality were just as important to Palps as galactic dominance, given the state of science in the Wars galaxy, he might have seen the latter as necessary for the former, whereas in the Trek universe, science seems much more advanced in many respects, so maybe he'd figure the most logical course would be to set up shop in a quiet lab somewhere, and keep cloning generations of himself until he could raise a child who could actually plausible become an interstellar tyrant.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

The answer is a snowball's chance in hell; he would FAIL miserably. The only reason Palpatine succeeds in the SW universe is because every party involved in his scheme is just dumb, or as the saying goes, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Probably the most obvious and exposing flaw is Jango Fett. This guy tries to assassinate a senator who opposes the creation of an army, he clearly is the gene donor to the GAR while also walking around with an unaltered clone of himself (so he cannot claim his DNA had been stolen), and he still pretends to be working for the Separatists who despite all this do not realize they are deceived and used! The Jedi together with the Republic do not get it either; they ignore all evidence for the conspiracy. Besides, why do the Separatists even obey some shady, anonymous being and his goons especially after the Naboo debacle?

Before and during the attempt to apprehend Palpatine, the Jedi under Mace Windu make no preparations, for instance a recording, to ensure the public learns the truth about the chancellor.

We do not even have to talk about a moron named Anakin.

The Senate? They give Palpatine emergency powers for the approval of the clone army, a central part of his whole plan, because apparently they are too stupid to just do that themselves.
It gets even more ridiculous when Palps proclaims the Empire, something like, "The traitorous Jedi tried to kill me! Evidence? Trust me, bros and gals. Security and stability, so we've got a dictatorship now."
It seems courts, proper trials, checks and balances do not exist here. No, there is no excuse such as "corruption;" they simply exult at being deprived of power.

We do not see much Federation politics in Star Trek, but nothing suggests that level of idiocy and incompetence. the same is true for its galactic neighbours... except maybe the Pakleds, but that is hardly enough to somehow subvert or disrupt the UFP.
Yes, there are badmirals and suchlike, but I do not see how they could fall for some dubious wannabe politician so easily. The likes of Pressman, Leyton and Satie do the right, necessary thing from their respective point of view. They are not some evil space tyrants.

Force mind trickery is very limited; Palps does not appear to use it at all.

Palpatine does not come off as intelligent. His trap in Ep. 6 makes no damn sense, and in Ep. 9, he needlessly announces his return before the super fleet is ready.

This character is probably supposed to be a smart master manipulator, yet due to bad writing, here we are.

You got my attention with this post.
The only thing in the Trek-verse I can think of that could stop Palpy is probably Q, the reason you gave for Papa Palps being there in the first place. Of course, there are Melkotions and other energy beings that could probably cause His Imperial Highness to have a really bad day.

No need for any space wizards; force users are anything but invincible. Transporters, phasers, gas, force fields etc. would work fine. Mace Windu gets almost killed by a booby trap set by Boba Fett.

 

[Ithekro]

I wonder how many problems he would have with telepathic and empathic species? Vulcans and Betazoids for example.

 

[Set Harth]

It gets even more ridiculous when Palps proclaims the Empire, something like, "The traitorous Jedi tried to kill me! Evidence? Trust me, bros and gals.

The evidence was supposed to be his physical condition, for whatever that's worth. Also, in the novel there was an audio recording.

Palpatine does not come off as intelligent. His trap in Ep. 6 makes no damn sense, and in Ep. 9, he needlessly announces his return before the super fleet is ready.

The fleet was ready.

 

[matthunter]

The fleet was ready.

But stuck in the most tactically-inconvenient place possible outside the event horizon of a black hole should anyone decide to attack it.

It's like Khan not being manipulated into, but actively CHOOSING to fight in the Mutara Nebula despite having a stronger ship than the Enterprise.