"oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

In Into Darkness, the

Spoiler: Villains

augments

are said to not need oxygen to breath, cannot be taken out with a stun shot, and the Vulcan nerve pinch is useless on them. This confuses me, because when they appeared in the original series episode

Spoiler: Classic Trek connection to ID

"Space Seed", Lieutenant MCGivers knocks out the Augment guarding Kirk with a hypospray injection, Spock knocks out another with a nerve pinch, and Kirk knocks out the rest by flooding the conference room with knockout gas, and was later able to knock out Khan with a wrench.

- So, why for crying out loud, was Harrison so impossible to knock out? If they had used a hypospray on him instead of a phaser stun, would he have been knocked out??

It made no sense to me in the movie how Kirk

Spoiler: Into Darkness

after putting so much effort into capturing Harrison, then releases him in order to get his help, but then doesn't plan a solid continiency plan for taking Harrison out if he went rogue, since they already knew he was an enhanced human with superior abilities - he took out a whole squadron of soldiers, and took a full on beating without even batting an eye - they knew he was extremely dangerous, yet made no plans to contain him if he went rogue again?! Before agreeing to free Harrison to help, the Enterprise crew should have attached a device to him or implanted a device that could neutralize the supervillain if he betrayed them - considering how dangerous of an individual he had proven to be ... Kirk's lack of foresight led to a bad error in command judgement - really bad, with consequences for a lot of people later in the film!

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Um, they don't need oxygen inside their cryo/suspended animation tubes.

As for the rest, I figure that "John Harrison" (1) had free reign of the best technology Starfleet had to offer and might've done a little tinkering on his own, giving himself extra strength and whatnot, and (2) he wasn't in the same situation as "Space Speed," that is, he wasn't atrophied after hundreds of years in suspended animation -- here he's back in shape and up to full strength.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Well, at least he is consistent. How many times in the film was he talked out of terrible decisions by others in the crew? I think there were at least three.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

No no. The OP is correct. When Khan said "We don't require oxygen", it wasn't because they were in tubes. He said it as a reference to their genetic enhancement. Once everyone was dead, they would "walk over their cold, dead corpses." He didn't say that they would first restore standard atmosphere.

The writers took Khan's superiority a bit too far on that one. He's still human, not a robot.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Uh...no. He specifically said he would walk over their "cold dead corpses" to retrieve his crew. It was obvious the intent was that the Augments could survive depressurization because they were in suspended animation. Khan would wait for Kirk and company to die, then go retrieve his people. He had access to space suits after all, and that makes a lot more sense than thinking Khan's crew somehow don't need to breathe.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

No. It's because of the cryo-tubes.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

1) He doesn't specify, so you can't claim to know.
2) He didn't say "we", he said "my crew".

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

He needed a spacesuit to get to the Vengeance.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Khan tried the same thing in "Space Seed" -- he cut off environmental controls to the bridge to try taking over the ship.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Once the Enterprise lost oxygen - which would in reality take a pretty long time. And they'd have spacesuits as well and probably some emergency oxygen supplies. And shuttles.
However when they eventually did run out of oxygen and die as they very nearly did in 'Space Seed' then Khan would just keep firing in a controlled manner until the shields were down and bring his guys aboard the Vengeance and then restore them. These guys didn't need Enterprise's oxygen because they were in self-contained cryo-tubes

I think because they were in Sickbay which must have extra shielding he couldn't easily get to them.

And because it was Spock in command he thought he wouldn't do anything spiteful to his people.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Or perhaps he didn't mean it so literaly, it might be they can survive in a lower oxygen atmosphere that would be more lethal to normal unagumented humans.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Uh, why can't he wait for them to die and then wear, oh, a space suit? His crew are in cryotubes, they don't breathe. It's not that difficult to figure out. He can't survive without oxygen for too much longer, because he is human.

 

Re: "Not needing oxygen" line - huh??? (Spoilers)

Yeah, stupid that this argument continues after the correct answer is presented: cryotubes.

 

They fly at warp and beam, and you complain about people being able to breath in space?

 

I always thought it was bogus that the Borg could survive in space without suits.
Cool but unrealistic.

 

I could write an encyclopedia on everything I found unrealistic about each of the Star Trek series and movies. It just comes down to what you can take at face value.

 

Right. I have to confess that I was confused during the first viewing but it became clear when someone here pointed it out, and it makes perfect sense when seeing the movie again.

 

My second viewing of the movie cleared this up for me, too. Depriving the Enterprise crew of oxygen would kill them, but not affect Khan's people in cryogenic freeze. Khan would then walk over the corpses on his way to get and resuscitate his own people.

 

The line about "my crew doesn't need oxygen" is indeed because they're in stasis pods, though the way the line is delivered is done in a confusing manner. I spent five minutes mulling it over before I realized it must be in reference to everyone being in stasis.

Khan was certainly a bit too invincible here. In TWOK having the Reliant's bridge fall apart on him left him essentially finished. His face was scarred up and bleeding, he had to crawl to the Genesis control device, and he seemed to be on his last breath anyway. Yet in STID, Vengeance crashes into San Fransisco and takes out a couple of blocks worth of buildings and Khan literally walks away unscathed.

 

He's "better".