Origins of the Dreadnought Concept?

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

Does anyone know where/when the concept of the dreadnought starship originated? Did it come from fandom initially or was it from Paramount? I heard about the idea at conventions in the early 80s (some fan made blueprints were even on sale), and then a few years later Pocket Books published the novel "Dreadnought" by Diane Carey (I know the books are canon but this one seemed to give the impression that the design was "blessed" by the Powers That Be).

Then, of course, the final episode of TNG featured a future Enterprise that was a dreadnought. I just think it's interesting; IF it were a fan-made idea that was embraced by the program makers, then that is pretty unusual.

Does anyone know the history of the idea/design?

 

[miraclefan]

I think it was those blasted star trek miniature battles game that came out in the eightes, Ive seen them and I think they just came up with the dreadnought on the spot so there was more variaty in the ships so they added a third nacell. IT'S lazy, but cost effective.

 

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

I think it was those blasted star trek miniature battles game that came out in the eightes, Ive seen them and I think they just came up with the dreadnought on the spot so there was more variaty in the ships so they added a third nacell. IT'S lazy, but cost effective.

Thanks for the reply... If those games were officially licensed, then the concept belonged to Paramount from the beginning. Interesting!

 

[sbk1234]

Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.

 

[WendellM]

Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.

You are correct. However, miraclefan's mention of gaming isn't completely unconnected...

The dreadnought design was Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's creation, first published in his Star Fleet Technical Manual, copyright 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount. That book's licensing/permission with regard to Paramount and Gene Roddenberry is a story in itself.

The gaming connection: Lou Zocchi had published his Star Trek Battle Manual game (which only included the Enterprise, Romulan bird of prey, and Klingon battlecruiser designs) in 1972 without license from Paramount. Paramount wasn't pleased, and he had to withdraw the game (he republished it a year later as Alien Space Battle Manual with the Trek references removed).

In 1977, Zocchi licensed the Tech Manual material from Franz Joseph Designs and incorporated its ship designs into his expanded Star Fleet Battle Manual miniatures game. His company, Gamescience, produced the miniatures, including the dreadnought (I have one in my closet, marked "© 1975 F.J.D." on the middle warp nacelle).

The 1979 Star Fleet Battles game from Stephen V. Cole used this same approach (its rulebook states, "The original designs of the Federation Dreadnought, Scout, Destroyer, Transport Tug, Starliner, and Starbase are copyright © 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, and are used under license.").

So, the dreadnought design is Franz Joseph's, copyrighted and licensed independently.

 

[IrritatingGameOfChess]

Actually, I think it was from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph, originally published (I think) in 1975.

You are correct. However, miraclefan's mention of gaming isn't completely unconnected...

The dreadnought design was Franz Joseph Schnaubelt's creation, first published in his Star Fleet Technical Manual, copyright 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, not Paramount. That book's licensing/permission with regard to Paramount and Gene Roddenberry is a story in itself.

The gaming connection: Lou Zocchi had published his Star Trek Battle Manual game (which only included the Enterprise, Romulan bird of prey, and Klingon battlecruiser designs) in 1972 without license from Paramount. Paramount wasn't pleased, and he had to withdraw the game (he republished it a year later as Alien Space Battle Manual with the Trek references removed).

In 1977, Zocchi licensed the Tech Manual material from Franz Joseph Designs and incorporated its ship designs into his expanded Star Fleet Battle Manual miniatures game. His company, Gamescience, produced the miniatures, including the dreadnought (I have one in my closet, marked "© 1975 F.J.D." on the middle warp nacelle).

The 1979 Star Fleet Battles game from Stephen V. Cole used this same approach (its rulebook states, "The original designs of the Federation Dreadnought, Scout, Destroyer, Transport Tug, Starliner, and Starbase are copyright © 1975 by Franz Joseph Designs, and are used under license.").

So, the dreadnought design is Franz Joseph's, copyrighted and licensed independently.

Wow, thank you for the comprehensive information. Roddenberry and Joseph's history is very interesting... and much of it is news to me even after all these years!